Free community college?

[Sparko]

"Middle class economics works"

It will be like Obamacare. So complex and convoluted that nobody can figure it out.

[Bill the Cat]

It's just another way to drain the taxpayers in order to buy low-income voters' loyalties.

[Sparko]

It's just another way to drain the taxpayers in order to buy low-income voters' loyalties.

And for government to get their paws on controlling the colleges and curriculum. I guess if common core doesn't make you ready for college, just control the colleges and put common core in them.

[Cow Poke]

Hi there, little college student --- I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you....

[Catholicity]

Funny thing.....If community college did have a "free" program, I might have gotten through, my view point isn't entirely biased, but working the overnight studying 24/7 and raising a child isn't exactly conducive to finishing nursing school even with a 3.2-3.5 gpa. And I did have it, I just didn't have any luxuries and most single parents I know didn't have them either. Plenty of us weren't single by choice.

[Cow Poke]

When I was a kid, community college (I took several courses for police work) was $4.00 / credit hour. $8.00 / hr if out of county, and $12.00 / hr if out of State.

I really wish I had sucked up a lot more of them cheap hours!!!!!

[Sparko]

Funny thing.....If community college did have a "free" program, I might have gotten through, my view point isn't entirely biased, but working the overnight studying 24/7 and raising a child isn't exactly conducive to finishing nursing school even with a 3.2-3.5 gpa. And I did have it, I just didn't have any luxuries and most single parents I know didn't have them either. Plenty of us weren't single by choice.

There are plenty of grants and scholarships available that make college nearly free as it is.

But when Obama promises "free college" it reminds me of when he promised "free healthcare" - it isn't quite what he promised, is it?

[Catholicity]

There are plenty of grants and scholarships available that make college nearly free as it is.

But when Obama promises "free college" it reminds me of when he promised "free healthcare" - it isn't quite what he promised, is it?

Believe me I know, Tuition was free, but it still wasn't "free" between gas, food, books, medical, etc....by no means was it free. I was, and most were lucky enough to get free tuition, extras were other costs, It would have been easier if those costs had something to offset them other than a loan (which wasn't available) then again...... still if it would cover any kind of "room and board" allowance gee it would be nice.

[Catholicity]

As for Obamacare. meh....its nice when you get it it sucks when you can't......, then you have to point out the words "EXEMPT" so they can't fine the snot out of you.....

[Cow Poke]

As for Obamacare. meh....its nice when you get it it sucks when you can't......, then you have to point out the words "EXEMPT" so they can't fine the snot out of you.....

I was working on my taxes on Turbotax Online, and there were a number of questions about Obamcare - to see if they could extract any more blood from this ol' turnip.

[Juvenal]

How do you feel about the "skin in the game" aspect, Jesse?

Do you think the student will take for granted their education, and not work as hard or be as committed if they're not paying for it? Or do you think that's not really a factor?

While it seems reasonable in theory, I don't see much support for it in practice.

At my regular gig, an international university, there are no subsidies, and it's very pricy, making for skin, bones, eye teeth, and left-hand kidneys in the game for whoever picks up the tab. It's beyond what's affordable for any kid coming out of high school, and for most of them, beyond what's even conceivable. The final tab for a bachelor's degree could buy two houses near me out here in the boonies.

So we get a lot of foreign nationals who either have rich daddies or, more commonly, whose country is picking up the tab. Foreign students have to take it seriously, because if their GPA slips, they'll likely lose their funding, and certainly lose their student status, which nowadays pretty much guarantees a one-way ticket at the airport, heading home. Now that's an incentive that any student can understand.

As to the rest, well, yeah, they've got financial skin in the game, but they don't understand money. Their tuition is covered by federally guaranteed or privately arranged student loans. For all practical purposes, these kids aren't investing in their education, they're gambling on it. If they make it through, they can expect a median entry-level position in the low-50s to pay a monthly student loan bill about the size of a smallish Miami mortgage. If they don't make it through, they will default on their loans, beyond question, and be hounded by that debt forever — even social security gets garnished to pay back student loans.

While that sounds like plenty of incentive, as their math professor, I can tell you with certainty they are all but clueless about the implications of their debt loads, leaving little if any cognitive room for the skin to act as an incentive.

On the other side of the coin, I have anecdotal evidence the current skin has negative impacts. Gimme a sec for a quick study ...

sick
transportation (ride canceled)
sick
work (needed for extra shift)
work (couldn't re-adjust schedule in time)
parking issues
sick
transportation (car towed)
sick
child care (sick child)
sick
transportation
child care (ANOTHER sick child)
transportation
work (called in)
sick
family (emergency)
transportation (flat tire)
work (meeting called)
family (pick up at airport)

Those are the last 20 excuses for absences I've received at the community college, which is heavily subsidized by the state — two thirds of tuition. It's fairly comprehensive because I'm kinda mother ducky about having my community college kids tell me where they are if they can't make it in. I worry about them. Factor out half as being bogus, and you'll still see a decent snapshot of what's preventing these kids from working as hard as they should. Rather than their lack of investment keeping them from taking their education seriously, it's their lack of funds keeping them out of class, and likely enough away from their assignments, by analogy if not by anecdote.

As ever, Jesse

[Cow Poke]

While it seems reasonable in theory, I don't see much support for it in practice.

At my regular gig, an international university, there are no subsidies, and it's very pricy, making for skin, bones, eye teeth, and left-hand kidneys in the game for whoever picks up the tab. It's beyond what's affordable for any kid coming out of high school, and for most of them, beyond what's even conceivable. The final tab for a bachelor's degree could buy two houses near me out here in the boonies.

So we get a lot of foreign nationals who either have rich daddies or, more commonly, whose country is picking up the tab. Foreign students have to take it seriously, because if their GPA slips, they'll likely lose their funding, and certainly lose their student status, which nowadays pretty much guarantees a one-way ticket at the airport, heading home. Now that's an incentive that any student can understand.

As to the rest, well, yeah, they've got financial skin in the game, but they don't understand money. Their tuition is covered by federally guaranteed or privately arranged student loans. For all practical purposes, these kids aren't investing in their education, they're gambling on it. If they make it through, they can expect a median entry-level position in the low-50s to pay a monthly student loan bill about the size of a smallish Miami mortgage. If they don't make it through, they will default on their loans, beyond question, and be hounded by that debt forever — even social security gets garnished to pay back student loans.

While that sounds like plenty of incentive, as their math professor, I can tell you with certainty they are all but clueless about the implications of their debt loads, leaving little if any cognitive room for the skin to act as an incentive.

On the other side of the coin, I have anecdotal evidence the current skin has negative impacts. Gimme a sec for a quick study ...

sick
transportation (ride canceled)
sick
work (needed for extra shift)
work (couldn't re-adjust schedule in time)
parking issues
sick
transportation (car towed)
sick
child care (sick child)
sick
transportation
child care (ANOTHER sick child)
transportation
work (called in)
sick
family (emergency)
transportation (flat tire)
work (meeting called)
family (pick up at airport)

Those are the last 20 excuses for absences I've received at the community college, which is heavily subsidized by the state — two thirds of tuition. It's fairly comprehensive because I'm kinda mother ducky about having my community college kids tell me where they are if they can't make it in. I worry about them. Factor out half as being bogus, and you'll still see a decent snapshot of what's preventing these kids from working as hard as they should. Rather than their lack of investment keeping them from taking their education seriously, it's their lack of funds keeping them out of class, and likely enough away from their assignments, by analogy if not by anecdote.

As ever, Jesse

Thanks,

I appreciate your time and effort in answering!

[seanD]

You can't earn a bachelor's degree at a community college. To put this in perspective, I was homeless in Santa Monica when I attended Santa Monica college. I didn't have to pay a dime for anything other than the $2 breakfast special they had at the cafeteria (eggs, potatoes and a butter milk biscuit, pretty good for the price). Obama is just making up a problem that doesn't exist so he can offer a fake solution and play hero to the downtrodden as he exits a very dismal presidential career (even among liberals). If he really wanted to offer a socialist solution to the downtrodden, he would excuse the millions of students that are burdened with school debt. This would actually help the economy.

[Catholicity]

I know the few times I missed a day in school, I attended a tutoring session, had the audio notes emailed to me and I missed 20 minutes of clinical day once, due to an already known traffic accident. So here were my excuses.
The flu (Had a flu shot) missed one day
A concussion
and one work day I couldn't reschedule
a child needed an emergency room visit.
When I had a massive seizure flare (pre clinical) I had a disability arrangement. Still got a 3.8 Still worked.
Took the bus.
8-4b to 8 walked home. no bus to Community though, I had to drive. Which means I had to have enough money for the toll road gas and food daily.
It sure as heck would've been nice..... The other girl whose husband had left her had 4 in day care, wasn't receiving child support of any kind (he was a deadbeat) took the same classload as I did. She lasted 1/2 a semester instead of 1.5 semesters. She had to drop. No support, need to earn money? The options to make a better life are kind of hopeless in real life. The only way out is if someone is rich and willing to pay for you or you have to marry out of it, OR..... you end up in the same cycle.....To be honest.....this is one arena where if there is ANY program that is wasteful, and anything that isn't needed, if there is corrupt money, cut trim make it dissappear stop it, and then for heaven's sake please give people who want it a chance to turn their life around. Am I biased yup. But I sure as heck after our pay goes up would not mind paying higher taxes to make something like this happen.

[Catholicity]

I was working on my taxes on Turbotax Online, and there were a number of questions about Obamcare - to see if they could extract any more blood from this ol' turnip.

I know. and I know how much of a two way street it is. Its crazy, But at the same time, as many problems as I have I wouldn't trade having the health insurance I do have, knowing that some day I'll pay in what I took out. I'm ok with paying in, because at this point my family needs their mom to be healthy.