Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Free community college?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Free community college?

    I'm surprised I haven't seen anybody say something about this:

    As expected, President Obama outlined his proposal to offer two years of free community college tuition for students, first detailed two weeks ago in Tennessee. Or as he put it in the speech, “to lower the cost of community college — to zero.”

    Modeled on that state’s guarantee of two years of free community college courses, the plan would provide tuition-free classes for students going to school at least half time who maintain a GPA of 2.5 or higher and are making steady progress toward a degree or transferring to a four-year institution.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...-union-speech/


    Personally, I think we need to fix our under-performing high school's first. Many colleges have to set up classes, just to teach some of these students things they should have learned back in high school. While I do understand these classes are important for adults that have been out of school for awhile; why do fresh high school grads need to take these same courses? I think this is just a bad idea until the performance issues of our high schools are fixed.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  • #2
    Not everyone belongs in college.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      Not everyone belongs in college.
      That too, but our high schools seem to be under-performing to start with, so more education is required to compensate for the poor state of our k-12 schools. These need to be fixed first, before we start to look at doing something at the college level.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        Not everyone belongs in college.
        That's why I'm all for high schools focusing more on vocational tech programs. It's a waste of people's time and money to prep them for college when they can't handle it when they could be getting trained for a career that will still allow them to make a decent living.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Community college generally isn't that expensive in the first place. If somebody can't find a way to afford community college without a program such as this, how are they going to possibly finish their degree? (Unless they're just going for an Associates, I suppose.)
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            That's why I'm all for high schools focusing more on vocational tech programs. It's a waste of people's time and money to prep them for college when they can't handle it when they could be getting trained for a career that will still allow them to make a decent living.
            Yep, as I recall, that is the stuff they do in other countries too. I knew a few kids that were not much for college, but were very good at other fields. My brother hasn't gone to college and I know he wouldn't like it or do well in college, but he's done rather well without a college degree. Plus, we seem to have problems with many of the basics anyway. Our schools often under perform in English and math (courses that are pretty important, for many fields of study). In many ways; college has become sort of a 'new high school' because the critical problems in our K-12 schools have left many unprepared for the real world.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Community college generally isn't that expensive in the first place. If somebody can't find a way to afford community college without a program such as this, how are they going to possibly finish their degree? (Unless they're just going for an Associates, I suppose.)
              Sports, often adds to the cost (they are expensive). Since few community colleges spend much time on sports, they do seem to be able to give a lower total cost. My mom managed to make it though community college, with 3 kids, so it isn't as though it is out of reach for anybody. Besides, I still think our efforts need to be spent on our K-12 schools first.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Personally, I think we need to fix our under-performing high school's first. Many colleges have to set up classes, just to teach some of these students things they should have learned back in high school. While I do understand these classes are important for adults that have been out of school for awhile; why do fresh high school grads need to take these same courses? I think this is just a bad idea until the performance issues of our high schools are fixed.
                No one more than me would like to see high schools stop sending ill-prepared students to college. But that's just what they've been doing, and will continue to do unless and until they're fixed. Something's got to be done with those students, too. You can't push them back into high school for a do-over, and even though they provide additional prep courses, regular universities mostly fail them out.

                That's where community colleges come in. They're as cheap to run or cheaper than high schools, unfortunately because they rely heavily on adjuncts who are better qualified than high school teachers but far less well paid and receive no benefits, but also fortunately because they're filled with slightly older students who don't do as much damage to the physical plant. Teenagers make for roving disaster areas, and it's a lot tougher for a high school to get rid of a problem student.

                Hmm, I wonder if that might become a problem, though. If the community colleges are legally obligated to provide them with two years of education ... that might translate into a right to be re-admitted. It'd be a good idea to watch how that would be regulated, assuming of course that the current congress does anything with it, which is highly unlikely .. unless Obama changes his mind next week and comes out opposing it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Community college generally isn't that expensive in the first place. If somebody can't find a way to afford community college without a program such as this, how are they going to possibly finish their degree? (Unless they're just going for an Associates, I suppose.)
                  Community college is basically already free (at least here in California). They have grants, work programs, tuition exemptions, waivers to get your books until you get your grant money, etc. Free community college (whatever that even means to Obama) won't give anyone anymore incentive to learn than it does now.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Something's got to be done with those students, too. You can't push them back into high school for a do-over, and even though they provide additional prep courses, regular universities mostly fail them out.
                    Normal people would at this point pivot to 'technical school', 'apprenticeship', or 'minimum wage job'.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                      No one more than me would like to see high schools stop sending ill-prepared students to college. But that's just what they've been doing, and will continue to do unless and until they're fixed. Something's got to be done with those students, too. You can't push them back into high school for a do-over, and even though they provide additional prep courses, regular universities mostly fail them out.

                      That's where community colleges come in. They're as cheap to run or cheaper than high schools, unfortunately because they rely heavily on adjuncts who are better qualified than high school teachers but far less well paid and receive no benefits, but also fortunately because they're filled with slightly older students who don't do as much damage to the physical plant. Teenagers make for roving disaster areas, and it's a lot tougher for a high school to get rid of a problem student.

                      Hmm, I wonder if that might become a problem, though. If the community colleges are legally obligated to provide them with two years of education ... that might translate into a right to be re-admitted. It'd be a good idea to watch how that would be regulated, assuming of course that the current congress does anything with it, which is highly unlikely .. unless Obama changes his mind next week and comes out opposing it.
                      How do you feel about the "skin in the game" aspect, Jesse?

                      Do you think the student will take for granted their education, and not work as hard or be as committed if they're not paying for it? Or do you think that's not really a factor?
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        How do you feel about the "skin in the game" aspect, Jesse?

                        Do you think the student will take for granted their education, and not work as hard or be as committed if they're not paying for it? Or do you think that's not really a factor?
                        I don't know if that comes into play because Obama stated that people will have to work for their payments, though he didn't specify how... so it's not a free rider issue.

                        (I don't support his plan BTW.)
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          I don't know if that comes into play because Obama stated that people will have to work for their payments, though he didn't specify how... so it's not a free rider issue.

                          (I don't support his plan BTW.)
                          The "workfare" thing never seems to pan out, IMOHBAO. I think it's just stated that way to make it less objectionable.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            I don't know if that comes into play because Obama stated that people will have to work for their payments, though he didn't specify how... so it's not a free rider issue.

                            (I don't support his plan BTW.)
                            There was a similar work program when I attended community college, and this was alongside the grants, so I honestly don't know what the heck Obama is talking about. I'm assuming maybe he just plays on people's ignorance about the subject and because it sounds so nice, especially to the lower classes, and also knows the MSM won't challenge him on the subject.
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              There was a similar work program when I attended community college, and this was alongside the grants, so I honestly don't know what the heck Obama is talking about. I'm assuming maybe he just plays on people's ignorance about the subject and because it sounds so nice, especially to the lower classes, and also knows the MSM won't challenge him on the subject.
                              "Middle class economics works"
                              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by LiconaFan97, Yesterday, 04:56 PM
                              20 responses
                              105 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Juvenal, Yesterday, 11:08 AM
                              9 responses
                              75 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Stoic
                              by Stoic
                               
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 08:52 AM
                              6 responses
                              61 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Ronson, 10-22-2020, 10:59 PM
                              53 responses
                              333 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post NorrinRadd  
                              Started by seer, 10-22-2020, 02:50 PM
                              24 responses
                              161 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Ronson
                              by Ronson
                               
                              Working...
                              X