Ethnic Cleansing by Christians in CAR

[Adrift]

I'm not so much "defensive" about it, as tired of the efforts of some to equate what ISIS is doing today with what Christians have done. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that horrible things have been done in the name of the 'Christian God', but that's old news. If ANY actual Christian body conducted themselves as the Islamist militants are doing today, there would be loud and long resounding denunciation from the vast majority of the Christian community.

(And, yes, I'm aware that there are SOME Muslims speaking out about the atrocities committed in the name of Islam)

But I don't see anyone here equating this to what ISIS is doing. At least not in this thread. The video does mention "right-wingers", which I thought was a bit of an odd thing to throw out there, but even he wasn't directly comparing it to ISIS (or was that implied and I just missed it?) So that's why I say "defensive", because you have to sort of connect those things in your mind, and then guard against them if no one is talking about them. You know what I mean?

[Adrift]

Fair enough! My apologies to Christy. My comments stand.

I'm still trying to see where we can legitimately call the anti-balaka (which, by the way, means anti-machette) movement "Christian", as indicated in the Title of the thread.

Source: VoiceOfAmerica

Many anti-balaka tell VOA they want the same treatment Seleka rebels are getting. They want to be barracked, paid, fed and given the chance to join the national army as part of disarmament.

Some anti-balaka see themselves as liberators of the country.

The militia are recognizable by the talisman they wear.

In Bangui, anti-balaka member Emotion Namsio, points to the small wrapped pouches on necklaces that hang like thick garland around a fellow member's neck.

"See this, a Kalashinkov bullet," he said, "you could fire on him and it wouldn't go through. You could stab him and it wouldn't go through. And there are others. Grenades can't hurt us."

The conflict here has increasingly been cast as sectarian.

But the anti-balaka - made up of both animists and Christians - insist their mission is patriotic, not religious.

Their leaders say the anti-balaka number in the tens of thousands.

The movement has its roots in self-defense militias that have been around, primarily in the west, since the 1990s. They were locals' response to general lawlessness and state indifference.

© Copyright Original Source

Source

So this is probably one of those extremist warlord cult movements like the Lord’s Resistance Army then, eh?

[Cow Poke]

I don't think that was Christy's intention.

Yeah, I get that.

She was opening the topic up for conversation, "So what do you think of this".

Roger that!

Maybe people are just a bit defensive about this topic now because of the lash out against the Muslim community for the Charlie Hebdo thing. Its something I've been aware of for awhile, and it's incredibly sad. As a Christian with limited resources and considerably less influence, there doesn't seem to be anything that I, as an individual, can do about it. As a body, its something that we in the West should probably be talking about so that our influential leaders can speak against it (if they aren't already).

I'm not so much "defensive" about it, as tired of the efforts of some to equate what ISIS is doing today with what Christians have done. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that horrible things have been done in the name of the 'Christian God', but that's old news. If ANY actual Christian body conducted themselves as the Islamist militants are doing today, there would be loud and long resounding denunciation from the vast majority of the Christian community.

(And, yes, I'm aware that there are SOME Muslims speaking out about the atrocities committed in the name of Islam)

[Adrift]

Didn't know that - just responding to this apparent attempt (and I may be wrong) to show that "Christians" are promulgating this "ethnic cleansing".

I don't think that was Christy's intention. She was opening the topic up for conversation, "So what do you think of this".

Maybe people are just a bit defensive about this topic now because of the lash out against the Muslim community for the Charlie Hebdo thing. Its something I've been aware of for awhile, and it's incredibly sad. As a Christian with limited resources and considerably less influence, there doesn't seem to be anything that I, as an individual, can do about it. As a body, its something that we in the West should probably be talking about so that our influential leaders can speak against it (if they aren't already).

[Cow Poke]

To be fair Christy only asked for comments and did not make any statement in support of the video.

Fair enough! My apologies to Christy. My comments stand.

I'm still trying to see where we can legitimately call the anti-balaka (which, by the way, means anti-machette) movement "Christian", as indicated in the Title of the thread.

Source: VoiceOfAmerica

Many anti-balaka tell VOA they want the same treatment Seleka rebels are getting. They want to be barracked, paid, fed and given the chance to join the national army as part of disarmament.

Some anti-balaka see themselves as liberators of the country.

The militia are recognizable by the talisman they wear.

In Bangui, anti-balaka member Emotion Namsio, points to the small wrapped pouches on necklaces that hang like thick garland around a fellow member's neck.

"See this, a Kalashinkov bullet," he said, "you could fire on him and it wouldn't go through. You could stab him and it wouldn't go through. And there are others. Grenades can't hurt us."

The conflict here has increasingly been cast as sectarian.

But the anti-balaka - made up of both animists and Christians - insist their mission is patriotic, not religious.

Their leaders say the anti-balaka number in the tens of thousands.

The movement has its roots in self-defense militias that have been around, primarily in the west, since the 1990s. They were locals' response to general lawlessness and state indifference.

© Copyright Original Source

Source

[Jedidiah]

So, Christy, is this the BEST example you can find of Christians murdering, maiming, raping and pillaging in the name of God?

To be fair Christy only asked for comments and did not make any statement in support of the video.

[Cow Poke]

(You know Christy isn't a skeptic, and that she has a track record of being an outspokenly pro-life Christian, right?)

Didn't know that - just responding to this apparent attempt (and I may be wrong) to show that "Christians" are promulgating this "ethnic cleansing".

As for whether these are Christians acting in the name of God, or from a religious fervor....

Source: IRIN

What is the religious connection?

Most Seleka members were Muslim, chiefly because Islam is the more prevalent religion in the marginalized northern areas where rebel groups sprang up. Seleka members committed widespread atrocities after seizing power in March 2013, including killings, large-scale arson and rape.

More recently Muslims, many with no connection to the rebels, have been targeted in reprisals by anti-balaka and civilians. According to Amnesty International, such attacks have led tens of thousands to leave CAR in “an exodus of historic proportions”.

According to Human Rights Watch (HRW), “the anti-balaka militias are increasingly organized and using language that suggests their intent is to eliminate Muslim residents from the Central African Republic.”

“At this rate, if the targeted violence continues, there will be no Muslims left in much of the Central African Republic,” Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch, said in an emailed statement.

“People whose families have peacefully lived in the country for centuries are being forced to leave, or are fleeing the very real threat of violence against them.”

A self-styled spokesman for the anti-balaka, Sebastien Wenezoui, has said that the movement is fighting to defend Christians. Most of its recruits are from Christian or animist communities. But Christian and Muslim leaders have insisted that the neither anti-balaka nor ex-Seleka can credibly claim to represent either faith.

© Copyright Original Source

We have an ongoing war here, not a "Christian" movement.

[KingsGambit]

The same thing could probably be said of many Christians living outside of Africa. OTOH, in Africa the rate of those converting to Christianity is probably higher than anywhere else and considering the persecution in many of these areas it is doubtful that these converts were doing it only because it's what all the cool kids are doing.

There are atrocities being committed by both sides in the region as the conflict is quite bloody

That is all true. I think the one thing that might be going against Africa in this regard is that there's probably a high number of people who attempt to syncretically blend Christianity with local religions.

[rogue06]

My understanding is that in some African countries, "Christian" is more of a cultural than a religious term and there are plenty of nominal believers. I can't help but wonder if that's the case here.

The same thing could probably be said of many Christians living outside of Africa. OTOH, in Africa the rate of those converting to Christianity is probably higher than anywhere else and considering the persecution in many of these areas it is doubtful that these converts were doing it only because it's what all the cool kids are doing.

There are atrocities being committed by both sides in the region as the conflict is quite bloody

[KingsGambit]

(You know Christy isn't a skeptic, and that she has a track record of being an outspokenly pro-life Christian, right?)

[Cow Poke]

Several things, besides the fact that he's incredibly biased....

He is obviously trying to make this a shining example of a "modern day crisis" in which Christians are "doing violence against non Christians".

The first problem with that is that he's trying to portray this as the counter to Muslims 'acting badly' in the name of Allah... there is no evidence, or even suggestion, that these "Christians" are doing this as part of their belief, or in the name of the Christian God. They are simply a group defined as "Christians", whatever that entails.

He says "right wingers" ask for "modern examples of Christians doing violence against non Christians". No, that's NOT what us "right wingers" are asking --- it's "where are the modern examples of Christians killing in the name of God or Christ, as part of their religion".

He says "We see… we KNOW that there is this disproportionate focus on Muslims committing… terror and uh…uh.. religion and ethnicity based violence but this is a very specific example where this Christian group is now confirmed to have been involved in the ethnic cleansing of Muslims…"

Again, no evidence whatsoever that they are waging war in the name of God.

Finally, he claims this is "one of the TOP humanitarian crisis as determined by the United Nations…” No evidence of that claim whatsoever.

So, Christy, is this the BEST example you can find of Christians murdering, maiming, raping and pillaging in the name of God?

[One Bad Pig]

From what I recall, it is in retaliation for Muslim violence against Christians a year or two ago - not that retaliation makes it excusable.

[KingsGambit]

My understanding is that in some African countries, "Christian" is more of a cultural than a religious term and there are plenty of nominal believers. I can't help but wonder if that's the case here.

[Darth Executor]

meh

[Epoetker]

Finally, some Africans I feel okay about sending money and guns to!