Ethnic Cleansing by Christians in CAR

[Adrift]

I'm not so much "defensive" about it, as tired of the efforts of some to equate what ISIS is doing today with what Christians have done. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that horrible things have been done in the name of the 'Christian God', but that's old news. If ANY actual Christian body conducted themselves as the Islamist militants are doing today, there would be loud and long resounding denunciation from the vast majority of the Christian community.

(And, yes, I'm aware that there are SOME Muslims speaking out about the atrocities committed in the name of Islam)

But I don't see anyone here equating this to what ISIS is doing. At least not in this thread. The video does mention "right-wingers", which I thought was a bit of an odd thing to throw out there, but even he wasn't directly comparing it to ISIS (or was that implied and I just missed it?) So that's why I say "defensive", because you have to sort of connect those things in your mind, and then guard against them if no one is talking about them. You know what I mean?

[Cow Poke]

So this is probably one of those extremist warlord cult movements like the Lord’s Resistance Army then, eh?

Maybe so.

I'm thinking it's more like a generic "Christian" as opposed to "Muslim" --- when I was in Haiti in the 80's, and Haitians saw my Bible, they would ask "are you Christian or Catholic". They're wanting to know what you're NOT as much as what you are. (Catholicism back then in Haiti was very closely associated with Voodoo.)

And everything that I can see on the web about anti-balaka seems to indicate that "Christian" is only a component of the movement. It's not a "Christian" endeavor.

(They're not singing "Onward Christian Soldiers, marching as to war....)

[Cow Poke]

But I don't see anyone here equating this to what ISIS is doing. At least not in this thread. The video does mention "right-wingers", which I thought was a bit of an odd thing to throw out there, but even he wasn't directly comparing it to ISIS (or was that implied and I just missed it?) So that's why I say "defensive", because you have to sort of connect those things in your mind, and then guard against them if no one is talking about them. You know what I mean?

I've just seen a lot of people lately trying to minimize the militant component of Islam with a "Christians did it too" argument. The whole flavor of the video piece is "nobody's talking about THIS", which, to me, is in obvious contrast to everybody talking about the brutality of Islam.

[Adrift]

I've just seen a lot of people lately trying to minimize the militant component of Islam with a "Christians did it too" argument. The whole flavor of the video piece is "nobody's talking about THIS", which, to me, is in obvious contrast to everybody talking about the brutality of Islam.

But you do agree that this is something that should be talked about, and hopefully somehow addressed, don't you? We've all heard of the growing charismatic movement in Africa, and along with it reports of witch burnings. What if some of the biggest names in the charismatic movement went to Africa and addressed these issues to some of the more popular African Christian leaders, and tried to get this issue snuffed out. This seems doable within Christianity (assuming they're holding to some vague form of orthodoxy). It doesn't have to be about who is the better or badder religion.

[rogue06]

But I don't see anyone here equating this to what ISIS is doing.

Not so much "equating" as "excusing." And not so much in this thread as in the media.

[Cow Poke]

Not so much "equating" as "excusing." And not so much in this thread as in the media.

yeah - which is exactly what the video seemed to be addressing, as they were complaining "nobody is covering this....".

[Cow Poke]

But you do agree that this is something that should be talked about, and hopefully somehow addressed, don't you?

Not as a problem with the Christian community, or Christianity in general, but as a problem with war in Africa in general, absolutely! And this whole anti-balaka thing is, indeed, a response to Muslim aggression. (Like OBP, I'm not claiming it's justified)

We've all heard of the growing charismatic movement in Africa, and along with it reports of witch burnings.

I guess I'm out of the loop on that one.

What if some of the biggest names in the charismatic movement went to Africa and addressed these issues to some of the more popular African Christian leaders, and tried to get this issue snuffed out. This seems doable within Christianity (assuming they're holding to some vague form of orthodoxy). It doesn't have to be about who is the better or badder religion.

I don't see that relating to the OP. The claim in the video is, basically, "Christians are just as violent as Muslims, but only Muslims get the headlines". (yeah, that's way oversimplifying it, but I don't think you can deny that's the "flavor" of the video)

[Adrift]

Not so much "equating" as "excusing." And not so much in this thread as in the media.

Hmm. I don't have a TV set, and don't really watch the news that much, so I'll have to take your word on that. Wouldn't it, in a way, be a good thing that the media report on it so that there is some sort of call to action? Or is it entirely framed in an anti-Christian sentiment that doesn't allow for a call for correction?

On a side note, and off topic from this thread, it seems to me that one of the major issues that people ignored about the anti-Muslim pushback that happened in the wake of Charlie Hebdo was the ripple effect it was going to have on all religions (well, specifically Christianity and Judaism). When an Islamic terrorist blows up a building or murders a citizen, it doesn't just reflect badly for that one religion, it affects us too. I don't know if a lot of Christians expected that when they jumped on the super anti-Muslim bandwagon. I started seeing a lot of Christians joining non-Christians and getting really really vocally riled up about Muslims after the whole incident, and in the back of mind I'm thinking "you know, they're going to come after us next, right?" I mean, I'm not siding with Islam or anything like that. I think there's plenty wrong with the religion outside of the fact that some of its extremist adherents murder people, but you know, Satan's hand was all over that issue. He's a pretty wily guy. He has a way of knowing which way the wind will blow, and it was only a matter of time that it blew our way.

[Adrift]

Not as a problem with the Christian community, or Christianity in general, but as a problem with war in Africa in general, absolutely! And this whole anti-balaka thing is, indeed, a response to Muslim aggression. (Like OBP, I'm not claiming it's justified)



I guess I'm out of the loop on that one.



I don't see that relating to the OP. The claim in the video is, basically, "Christians are just as violent as Muslims, but only Muslims get the headlines". (yeah, that's way oversimplifying it, but I don't think you can deny that's the "flavor" of the video)

I honestly didn't get that. Did they compare Christianity with Islam at all in that video? Are you sure you're not simply allowing current events to inform your viewing, or am I just being naive (I can be rather naive some times, so I take no offense if I am).

[Pentecost]

I guess I'm out of the loop on that one.

The witch burnings or the growth of the charismatic movement in Africa? Because I've heard very little on the first, and the second is widely commented upon my charismatic authors who are trying to make a Western audience realize the global nature of the movement, and how if it is separated from "Protestantism" I've heard reports that we're third biggest after Eastern Orthodoxy.

I don't see that relating to the OP. The claim in the video is, basically, "Christians are just as violent as Muslims, but only Muslims get the headlines". (yeah, that's way oversimplifying it, but I don't think you can deny that's the "flavor" of the video)

It's related because no one talks much about these witches or their supposed burnings which would mean "Christians" are more violent than commonly reported.

[Cow Poke]

I honestly didn't get that. Did they compare Christianity with Islam at all in that video? Are you sure you're not simply allowing current events to inform your viewing, or am I just being naive (I can be rather naive some times, so I take no offense if I am).

It's right there in the video at 1:16....."

He says "We see… we KNOW that there is this disproportionate focus on Muslims committing… terror and uh…uh.. religion and ethnicity based violence but this is a very specific example where this Christian group is now confirmed to have been involved in the ethnic cleansing of Muslims…"

Muslims, of course, being the believers of Islam, yes -- he's comparing the allegation that "nobody is covering this" with the "disproportionate focus on Muslims".....

[Adrift]

The witch burnings or the growth of the charismatic movement in Africa? Because I've heard very little on the first, and the second is widely commented upon my charismatic authors who are trying to make a Western audience realize the global nature of the movement, and how if it is separated from "Protestantism" I've heard reports that we're third biggest after Eastern Orthodoxy.

It's related because no one talks much about these witches or their supposed burnings which would mean "Christians" are more violent than commonly reported.

I'm actually okayish with the growth of the Evangelical charismatic movement in the Southern Hemisphere to some extent. It was the hope of a lot of secularist intellectuals that a Marxist sort of Catholic liberation theology was really going to take root in the Southern Hemisphere. The Evangelical charismatic movement sort of nipped that whole thing in the bud, but it kinda came with its own set of issues.

[Adrift]

It's right there in the video at 1:16....."

Muslims, of course, being the believers of Islam, yes -- he's comparing the allegation that "nobody is covering this" with the "disproportionate focus on Muslims".....

Ok. I missed that the first time through. It doesn't occur to me that he's wrong though. There is a larger focus in the media on Muslim violence, and for good reason, but if Christians are committing violence, we ought to be aware of it, and doing something about it if possible.

[Cow Poke]

Ok. I missed that the first time through. It doesn't occur to me that he's wrong though. There is a larger focus in the media on Muslim violence, and for good reason,

Then it's not "disproportionate", right?

but if Christians are committing violence, we ought to be aware of it, and doing something about it if possible.

If a bunch of guys who happen to be nominal Christians vandalize house, is that a "Christian" problem? Particularly, if they're not shouting "God is GREAT" during the commission of their vandalism?

Would we, as a Christian community, respond to that, or would we expect law enforcement to handle it because it's a civil or criminal matter, not a religious one.

[Raphael]

I'm actually okayish with the growth of the Evangelical charismatic movement in the Southern Hemisphere to some extent.

Speaking as an Evangelical Charismatic who has spent his entire life in the Southern Hemisphere (apart from a 3 week holiday to the UK 20 years ago) thanks