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Who are the 'REAL' conservatives?

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  • KingsGambit
    replied
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    You're thinking party instead of spectrum.

    Political science: never create a new term when you can recycle an old one fifteen different ways.
    No, I know there all ]the historical Populist Party, but I see people registered to all different political parties associated with the general spirit of populism.

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  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Which is to say that Americans overwhelming believe in personal freedom and self-actualization. And now you know why the United States of America is one of the greatest nations in history despite our current president doing everything he can to change that.
    He seems to be doing quite well at "that" change. I refer to the United States of America as a once great nation. A great nation would be made up of those values you list, but they do not seem to apply in this day and age.

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  • Adrift
    replied
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    Those are called 'outliers'. Sure, some exist, but in aggregate, we don't see very many.
    Well maybe you don't. Probably depends on the circles you know.

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  • Teallaura
    replied
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I thought populism was more generally about reflecting the will of the people/pandering to the crowd (i.e. Elizabeth Warren fashions herself a populist). I don't support such political behavior because public opinion is capricious.
    You're thinking party instead of spectrum.

    Political science: never create a new term when you can recycle an old one fifteen different ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingsGambit
    replied
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    You're considered 'populists' - and almost as rare as dodos...
    I thought populism was more generally about reflecting the will of the people/pandering to the crowd (i.e. Elizabeth Warren fashions herself a populist). I don't support such political behavior because public opinion is capricious.

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  • Teallaura
    replied
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    I see people say this all the time, but I know some leftists in America that would probably put to shame most leftists in Europe (I have a number of close acquaintances in the Anarchist scene), but maybe you're referring to our politicians moreso than groups of individuals.
    Those are called 'outliers'. Sure, some exist, but in aggregate, we don't see very many.

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  • Teallaura
    replied
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    We FL/SC don't even get our own common term
    You're considered 'populists' - and almost as rare as dodos...

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    Just to add some data to the mix:

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]3421[/ATTACH]

    from here

    Is this a realistic summary?

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]3422[/ATTACH]

    Are US values skewed compared to the rest of the West? see here
    Which is to say that Americans overwhelming believe in personal freedom and self-actualization. And now you know why the United States of America is one of the greatest nations in history despite our current president doing everything he can to change that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Adrift
    replied
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    I fully agree - that's actually pretty old news. What most Americans would be surprised by is how much more in common our sides have than those internationally. Our 'left' would be right in many nations and our 'right' left of many others. American is VERY centrist - our bell curve looks like a tall bell; Europe's looks like a bump in a long line.
    I see people say this all the time, but I know some leftists in America that would probably put to shame most leftists in Europe (I have a number of close acquaintances in the Anarchist scene), but maybe you're referring to our politicians moreso than groups of individuals.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingsGambit
    replied
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    Fiscal conservatives often fall into the libertarian spectrum which makes them more socially liberal. Not all social conservatives are fiscally conservative but a high percentage are. In common parlance, FC/SL is usually going to be called moderate if not libertarian (which would be the more accurate).

    In any case, I would not refer to FC/SL or FL/SC as either liberal or conservative if speaking generally.
    We FL/SC don't even get our own common term

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  • Teallaura
    replied
    Originally posted by phank View Post
    Maybe we could say that most conservatives are fiscal conservatives, but not all of them are social conservatives. Pure fiscal conservatives want a smaller, less intrusive, far less expensive government. If this means government should stay out of such personal affairs as abortion and marriage, so be it. If this means maintaining only enough defense for actual defense (rather than running overseas to start wars halfway around the world), so be it. If it means legalizing drugs and stopping the prohibitively expensive, totally ineffective drug war, so be it. Fiscal conservatives favor toll roads, so that only those who drive on a road should be paying for it. And so on.
    Fiscal conservatives often fall into the libertarian spectrum which makes them more socially liberal. Not all social conservatives are fiscally conservative but a high percentage are. In common parlance, FC/SL is usually going to be called moderate if not libertarian (which would be the more accurate).

    In any case, I would not refer to FC/SL or FL/SC as either liberal or conservative if speaking generally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Teallaura
    replied
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    I found this doing my minimal research on line. I do maintain that the US is 'more' conservative generally than most other developed nations and I think some of you guys' heads would explode if you had to live here in OZ or NZ for example.
    I fully agree - that's actually pretty old news. What most Americans would be surprised by is how much more in common our sides have than those internationally. Our 'left' would be right in many nations and our 'right' left of many others. American is VERY centrist - our bell curve looks like a tall bell; Europe's looks like a bump in a long line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Epoetker
    replied
    Maybe we could say that most conservatives are fiscal conservatives, but not all of them are social conservatives.
    Or we could say that most people are conservative about the things they know very well. They most certainly would not stay out of abortion and marriages that affected them and their family specifically, because they instinctively recognize their fundamental authority in that field.

    Needless to say, the current government does not.

    If this means maintaining only enough defense for actual defense (rather than running overseas to start wars halfway around the world), so be it.
    What do foreign wars have to do with 'social conservatism'? The great split in foreign policy was traditionally between the formalists and the DoD, who preferred openly declaring war on enemies, and the informalists at the State Department, who favor informally doing so via diplomacy, subterfuge, encouraging local revolutions, and applied foreign aid. Both are expensive, only one can be described as democratically involving the common American in the foreign affairs of his country.

    Leave a comment:


  • phank
    replied
    Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
    You do realize how immature this makes you appear, right?


    And social conservatives tend to only be fiscally conservative regarding the government programs which fit an ethnocentric, nationalistic, and militaristic mindset.
    You almost never see social conservatives campaigning for a downsized military, or demanding that religious organizations be taxed in order to balance the budget.

    Fiscal conservatives have done both.
    Maybe we could say that most conservatives are fiscal conservatives, but not all of them are social conservatives. Pure fiscal conservatives want a smaller, less intrusive, far less expensive government. If this means government should stay out of such personal affairs as abortion and marriage, so be it. If this means maintaining only enough defense for actual defense (rather than running overseas to start wars halfway around the world), so be it. If it means legalizing drugs and stopping the prohibitively expensive, totally ineffective drug war, so be it. Fiscal conservatives favor toll roads, so that only those who drive on a road should be paying for it. And so on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    Just to add some data to the mix:
    pooper of the party!

    Leave a comment:

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