Originally posted by pancreasman
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Activist Rethinks His Position After Undertaking Use of Force Scenarios
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post"Hands up, don't shoot!" is not just a protest chant, it's actually excellent advice for not getting shot by a cop.
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostTime for my regular completely unwarranted generalisation: You Americans seem to be stuck in black or white thinking. Cops are either saintly heroes doing an tough job or evil fascists. Surely the real truth is that just like everybody else, there are 'good' cops and 'bad' cops and every shade in between. Your history is chock full of examples of corrupt and violent cops as well as heroic public servants.
I suspect any 2 cops might handle any given situation differently. I think we should avoid lionising cops in all situations because it leaves no room for 'he did what he thought was right, but he probably could have handled it better.'
There is also the adrenalin factor and the "fight or flight" response with which a human has to deal.
I believe I am qualified as an expert in these matters since I have watched many episodes of 'Law and Order'.
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Originally posted by Adrift View Post
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Probably something like "well these guys weren't trained for the situations, they were civilians, cops are supposed to be trained for them"Originally posted by square_peg View PostWould a mature, reasonable person care to provide a reasonable answer to why such a reply would supposedly be flawed?
I would really appreciate it if you would be a bit more circumspect in your quoting... the way you had this laid out, it APPEARED that this was part of what I said. It was not.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostI'd be interested in learning more too. I really don't know anything about the subject.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI really do want to get a better view on this because I do assume that if there was an easier way to use tasers more widely, it would be done because it would reduce liability big time.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostI don't know; I was just commenting on the apparent implication being that no reasons whatsoever were ever given.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostBut would these be applicable to a relatively calm situation such as the one described?
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostOf course the Aussies also have the problem of occasionally setting people on fire with using a tazer (but then trying to attack the cops by throwing petrol at them to set them alight is stupid)
http://www.news.com.au/national/rona...-1225752482311
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostIf we're thinking of the same thread, I remember multiple reasons given for why tasing may not be a viable option.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostThis is all fine and dandy, but...you didn't actually provide an answer. So, I can't help but ask, why indeed couldn't an officer resort to tasing? In the second scenario, when he had to break up a fight and one of the men started moving towards him, I noticed that the man didn't seem to be approaching the officer particularly quickly (at the very least, he certainly wasn't sprinting at him), and that the officer walked rather close to the fight. I've been trying to come up with possible alternatives on my own, but so far it seems that it would be common sense to give yourself some space when approaching someone who's potentially violent. Wouldn't this officer-for-a-day have erred by walking too close? If he'd given himself more space, and then a man started walking towards him, what exactly would've prevented a taser from sufficing? It'd be one thing if the man was crazed out of his mind on drugs and was running so quickly that he could possibly go right through the taser, or that the taser would miss, but he wasn't moving that quickly.
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Originally posted by pancreasman View PostTime for my regular completely unwarranted generalisation: You Americans seem to be stuck in black or white thinking. Cops are either saintly heroes doing an tough job or evil fascists. Surely the real truth is that just like everybody else, there are 'good' cops and 'bad' cops and every shade in between. Your history is chock full of examples of corrupt and violent cops as well as heroic public servants.
I suspect any 2 cops might handle any given situation differently. I think we should avoid lionising cops in all situations because it leaves no room for 'he did what he thought was right, but he probably could have handled it better.'
I believe I am qualified as an expert in these matters since I have watched many episodes of 'Law and Order'.
http://www.news.com.au/national/rona...-1225752482311
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In New Zealand, our police officers generally are unarmed. Some have access to a firearm that is kept in a lockbox in the patrol car, a few are armed with tazers, and they have to be called in if a tazer is required, and if more serious weapons are needed, the Armed Offenders Squad is called in.
That being said what I don't understand is why they don't equip our officers with Tippmann TiPX pistols, and have pepperballs in them.
It's non-lethal, less controversial than a Tazer (although the tazer does have the added advantage of having a built-in camera every time it's fired)
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Indeed, it may seem obvious to gun experts why tasers can't suffice in situations like the one described where nothing was occurring rapidly, but this isn't obvious to me, either.
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