Swedish centre-left do eight-year deal with opposition to avert snap election

[Paprika]

The deal with the centre-right Alliance bloc extends right through the next parliament of 2018-22, setting aside differences with the aim of making sure that centrist parties hold a lock on power and shut out the far right.

"The agreement is a way to show that we take responsibility for making sure Sweden can be governed; that we put the country's future first," Social Democrat Lofven said.

Why, it's almost as if they're afraid of the will of the people.

Democracy!

[Darth Executor]

Looks like Sweden's begging for their own Breivik.

[Leonhard]

Looks like Sweden's begging for their own Breivik.

You sure like bringing him up a lot.

[Leonhard]

If another Breivik happens, it will be zero percent the fault of whatever ideology that Breivik-type is railing against. If a gun nut decides that the best way to gain support for his political fantasy, is by committing mass murder of a whole group of civilians. Then that poor soul, aside from being hellbound on an express train, is himself, alone, responsible.

[Darth Executor]

If another Breivik happens, it will be zero percent the fault of whatever ideology that Breivik-type is railing against.

No, it would mostly be the fault of Swedish progressives, just like Breivik was mostly the fault of Norwegian progressives. Breivik's main crime was that he shot the malefactors' kids rather than the malefactors themselves. While the tactical benefits of doing that are obvious he should have retained the moral high ground and not murder kids.

If a gun nut decides that the best way to gain support for his political fantasy, is by committing mass murder of a whole group of civilians. Then that poor soul, aside from being hellbound on an express train, is himself, alone, responsible.

What political fantasy? Norwegian politicians provided political cover for muslim barbarians to wreck Breivik's part of the city and make his youth a living hell so he put as much lead as he could in their kids. Seems like a pretty easy to follow cause and effect chain to me. It also seems to have worked as Norwegian voting patterns and immigration policy has swung in Breivik's preferred direction.

[Leonhard]

No, it would mostly be the fault of Swedish progressives, just like Breivik was mostly the fault of Norwegian progressives.

Free will exists.

Breivik's main crime was that he shot the malefactors' kids rather than the malefactors themselves. While the tactical benefits of doing that are obvious he should have retained the moral high ground and not murder kids.

You're seriously fanboying his mass murdering? Nuts to this Breivik envy of yours.

Breivik's main crime was killing civilians while being a civilian himself. Its murder, or ratsach (going by the biblical word in the tenth commandment). Lying in wait like a predator, pouncing. He got the fame and glory he wanted, and the adoration of guys like you Darth.

[Leonhard]

I have sympathy for Breivik, unless he reprents he's going to the pit. I have the same sympathy for the abortionist murderers (many of whom haven't repented). Nothing else can be said for him. There's litterally nothing about his act worth imitating.

[Darth Executor]

Free will exists.

Yes, and when you use your free will to wage war on a group of people, some might decide to react violently.

You're seriously fanboying his mass murdering?

Refusing to buy the lines of his enemies (who are also my enemies and the enemies of God) is hardly fanboying. I'm simply acknowledging that he's the product of progressive low intensity war waged on him, and that it's not a black and white issue.

Nuts to this Breivik envy of yours.

I'm too arrogant to envy someone else.

Breivik's main crime was killing civilians while being a civilian himself. Its murder, or ratsach (going by the biblical word in the tenth commandment).

There is no civilian distinction in the bible. God ordered thousands of kids captured in combat executed. Breivik's crime is:

a) Unnecessarily killing innocent children. (the greater)
b) Disobeying lawful authorities. (the lesser)

The kids' status as civilians doesn't mean anything. Nevermind that expecting non-Christians to act like Christians is an exercise in futility. Heck, expecting Christians to act like Christians is an exercise in futility.

Lying in wait like a predator, pouncing.

Actually judging by the accounts he just walked around the island and shot them like sheep waiting for slaughter. He also had a cop uniform so some of them ran to him and lined up nicely to be mowed down like weeds. That's actually a pretty good metaphor for nordic societies, come to think of it. Anyway, no laying in wait was necessary.

He got the fame and glory he wanted, and the adoration of guys like you Darth.

He didn't want fame and glory, he wanted to send a message, which was at least partially received.

[Leonhard]

Yes, and when you use your free will to wage war on a group of people, some might decide to react violently.

This is about as relevant as the oft heard threat from feminists that restricting 'womens rights' will lead to women killing their babies with knitting needles. Christians would be no more responsible for those murders, than whatever political ideology you don't like would be reponsible for the free will choices of a gun nut.

You already agree that its immoral and gravely sinful to do what he did. What more needs to be said?

Refusing to buy the lines of his enemies (who are also my enemies and the enemies of God) is hardly fanboying. I'm simply acknowledging that he's the product of progressive low intensity war waged on him, and that it's not a black and white issue.

I'm hearing nothing but adoration about what he did. You merely correctly that he hit targets that weren't in your mind proper.

There is no civilian distinction in the bible. God ordered thousands of kids captured in combat executed.

I'm not going to lecture you of the need for a teaching magisterium, and of the tradition. However if you want to argue that the Bible permitted the Israelites to murder visitors to their country, or fellow members of Israel, or in other nations, without consent of their leaders or without divine consent. Or if you're weird enough to try to argue that God Himself permitted the attrocity that Breivik committed. Then be my guest and start cranking.

a) Unnecessarily killing innocent children. (the greater)
b) Disobeying lawful authorities. (the lesser)

Both crimes are punishable by death in the OT, what does that teach you? Jesus Himself commanded His disciples, as taught by St. Paul, to obey the civil authorties as if they were God Himself.

The kids' status as civilians doesn't mean anything.

Except that its what makes what he did unlawful. It was neither in self-defense, nor was he acting as a member of an army. He was a lone, murdering, terrorist.

Actually judging by the accounts he just walked around the island and shot them like sheep waiting for slaughter. He also had a cop uniform so some of them ran to him and lined up nicely to be mowed down like weeds. That's actually a pretty good metaphor for nordic societies, come to think of it. Anyway, no lying in wait was necessary.

He was not a soldier, there were no orders. He gave himself a mission, picked a lot of targets, and decided to spring a trap on them. Then waltzed around bravely murdering unarmed citizens with machine guns, and setting off demolision charges.

He didn't want fame and glory, he wanted to send a message, which was at least partially received.

By these posts from you at least he's the hero of that year to you. And you're just one of a large fan crowd, containing everything from skinheads, to various nebulous right-wing groups who all have it figured out. And oh he's quite the media personality, answering fan letters, writing a manifesto, various social media circles.

One of the first things he wanted when he got a prison cell (other than childish demands that he didn't have a proper gaming system), was a computer and internet access.

If you don't see that, you're more blinded and naive than I ever imagined you were Darth Ex. I thought you were simple a hardballing rightwinger, with a tendency to pick vexing things for fun. This? This is really disappointing to watch.

I'm not even sure you really believe in Breviks antics, or whether you even think that they were worth doing. If I have to be honest I think you're just engaging in flame-bating and trolling. Its just that Klebold and Harris of Columbine had no political ties worth talking about, and Breivik at least alligns vaguely with your own politics. Its something to make other people mad eh? "Look at me I'm supporting a terrorist. I kinda look up to him, but not really." Skirting the edges of what's allowable on a forum. I don't think twebs rules directly allow for people to support terrorism here, but you can always claim that you simple see him as a product (even though you think merely that he should not have shot children).

[Leonhard]

If you ask me what should be done to Breivik.



And he should be viewed as nothing other than another guy who deserved that.

[Darth Executor]

This is about as relevant as the feminists threat that restricting 'womens rights' will lead to women killing their babies with knitting needles. Christians would be no more responsible for those murders, than whatever political ideology you don't like would be reponsible for the free will choices of a gun nut.

You already agree that its immoral and gravely sinful to do what he did. What more needs to be said?

Not the same thing. Feminists are taking it out on an unrelated third party. Breivik didn't.

I'm hearing nothing but adoration about what he did. You merely correctly that he hit targets that weren't in your mind proper.

I'm thinking you need to get your ears checked then. And yes, if Breivik had killed the people using immigration to wage war on him then my opinion of him would be much better. I'm not sure why I should be outrageously outraged that people who betray their people and wage war on them get killed. It's like the (extremely rare) abortionist who gets shot. Boo hoo, a mass murderer got a bullet in the head. The best part is that the people who get so outrageously outraged about this don't

I'm not going to lecture you of the need for a teaching magisterium, and of the tradition. However if you want to argue that the Bible permitted the Israelites to murder visitors to their country, or fellow members of Israel, or in other nations, without consent of their leaders or without divine consent. Or if you're weird enough to try to argue that God Himself permitted the attrocity that Breivik committed. Then be my guest and start cranking.

Breivik didn't murder visitors to his country, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. The thugs that harassed him and other native Norwegians certainly should have been executed. That is entirely in line with the law of God. As I said, he did do wrong by killing without being a ruling authority himself, so again, I'm not sure why you brought this up. Seems to me that you're just desperate to pin more things on him than necessary.

And evidently God permitted it since it happened. God permits a lot of things. He's also used bad people to punish His enemies before. It's entirely conceivable that God used Breivik to punish Norway's political class, much like he used Nebuchadnezzar in a similar manner.

Both crimes are punishable by death in the OT, what does that teach you?

Nope, the latter isn't, necessarily.

Jesus Himself commanded His disciples, as taught by St. Paul, to obey the civil authorties as if they were God Himself.

I don't think Breivik was Jesus's disciple.

Except that its what makes what he did unlawful. It was neither in self-defense, nor was he acting as a member of an army. He was a lone, murdering, terrorist.

Murdering soldiers is also unlawful so the civilian status has, like I said, nothing to do with his crime.

He was not a soldier, there were no orders. He gave himself a mission, picked a lot of targets, and decided to spring a trap on them. Then waltzed around bravely murdering unarmed citizens with machine guns, and setting off demolision charges.

You make him sound pretty badass. Like some sort of Nordic Rambo.

By you at least he's the hero of that year. And oh he's quite the media personality, answering fan letters, writing a manifesto. One of the first things he wanted when he got a prison cell (other than childish demands that he didn't have a proper gaming system), was a computer and internet access.

Of course he's a media personality, that doesn't mean he did it to become one.

I'm not even sure you really believe in Breviks antics, or whether you even think that they were worth doing. If I have to be honest I think you're just engaging in flame-bating and trolling. Its just that Klebold and Harris of Columbine had no political ties worth talking about, and Breivik at least alligns vaguely with your own politics. Its something to make other people mad eh? "Look at me I'm supporting a terrorist. I kinda look up to him, but not really." Skirting the edges of what's allowable on a forum. I don't think twebs rules directly allow for people to support terrorism here, but you can always claim that you simple see him as a product (even though you think merely that he should not have shot children).

I believe the things that created Breivik are real and in the long term far worse than what Breivik did (or what any one man can realistically do) and the attempts to sweep them under the rug should be resisted. Which, incidentally, is what you tried to do from the start. You are very interested in protecting the kids of politicians from potential Breiviks but not particularly interested in protecting Breivik's peers (who were also young kids/teenagers) from the muslim machete rape squads herded around Oslo by their anti-racist masters, even though doing the latter would ensure there would be no more Breiviks. The biggest problem with Breivik is and always was the issues that created him. Breivik is simply a natural and entirely expected reaction that would not have existed without those underlying issues.

[Darth Executor]

If you ask me what should be done to Breivik.



And he should be viewed as nothing other than another guy who deserved that.

Sure, as long as the people who brought packs of feral muslims in Oslo and elsewhere then provided them with political cover to harass and humiliate the natives are executed first.

[OU812]

Jesus Himself commanded His disciples, as taught by St. Paul, to obey the civil authorities as if they were God Himself.

Statists (of all stripes) love THAT part of the bible, of course. And more importantly, what could possibly go wrong with a de-contextualized, literalist* approach to scripture such as the above? (sacrasm) The Maccabean Revolt....might like a would with you.


*context might be in order here

[Leonhard]

Not the same thing. Feminists are taking it out on an unrelated third party. Breivik didn't.

No significant difference.

I'm thinking you need to get your ears checked then. And yes, if Breivik had killed the people using immigration to wage war on him then my opinion of him would be much better. I'm not sure why I should be outrageously outraged that people who betray their people and wage war on them get killed. It's like the (extremely rare) abortionist who gets shot. Boo hoo, a mass murderer got a bullet in the head. The best part is that the people who get so outrageously outraged about this don't

Broken paragraph, and again you pretty much agree with what he did, only he shot some targets you don't like. And yeah boohoo an abortionist got shot. That's a mortal sin. Abortionist murderers, if they even make it to Heaven (I sincerely doubt any of them will, as they're usually entirely unrependant), won't see a thimble of reward for what they did.

Breivik didn't murder visitors to his country, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Oh yes he did. I'm not going to do your homework for you on this one. Shows your ignorance. He even killed people he later admitted weren't technically traitors even by his own bizarre three-stage classification his fanboys love to post.

The thugs that harassed him and other native Norwegians certainly should have been executed. That is entirely in line with the law of God.

Breivik is neither Norway, the government, judge, jury, executioner, soldier, officer, policeman, anything. Stop making bullcrap to defend the crimes he committed.

As I said, he did do wrong by killing without being a ruling authority himself, so again, I'm not sure why you brought this up. Seems to me that you're just desperate to pin more things on him than necessary.

Being a murdering terrorist is enough.

And evidently God permitted it since it happened. God permits a lot of things. He's also used bad people to punish His enemies before. It's entirely conceivable that God used Breivik to punish Norway's political class, much like he used Nebuchadnezzar in a similar manner.

Woaw... that's bad logic, even for you Darth Ex. I wouldn't expect Shunyadragon to pull out something like this. This is so bad you have to put together with John Loftus levels of poor theology. I'm not even sure if I should begin to explain it you.

I mean I'm floored, I asked if you would be weird enough to defend that God gave Breivik permission to do this, and there you go.

So first of all no, God did not sanction even a single of the murders committed. Breivik is under a just judgement for a vile and reprehensible crime he perpretrated against his fellow humans, against the state, and by extension against God. Freight train to hell on this one, and not a pad on the back. I hope he turns, I doubt he will, but I have and will perhaps pray more for him (just so many to pray for).

Let me spell it out in terms I'd use for a sunday school class. God permits humans to use their freewill to do their evil. That does not sanction, or make good, or excuse, or allow, or ennoble anything that humans subsequently do. The same is true for Breivik. God knew it would happen, and ultimately it will fit into the plan nobody understands but God.

If you're so dense you don't know this. Which is basic knowledge, I advice opening a thread about it in Christianity 101, and get your head chewed on for a while until you understand this.

Nope, the latter isn't, necessarily.

Nice escape hatch, but the kind of 'civil disobedience' he gave here falls into a camp that would put your head on the chopping board once.

I don't think Breivik was Jesus's disciple.

I don't care if he was a buddhist. God's law, is God's law. Him not being a baptised and confirmed member of the Church only means he's not bound to fulfill Church duties.

Murdering soldiers is also unlawful so the civilian status has, like I said, nothing to do with his crime.

I didn't think you'd make any valid points in your posts. Well done Darth Ex, here's one lonely one. I'll take it into account and you can go work on the rest like a good boy.

Of course he's a media personality, that doesn't mean he did it to become one.

Of course not, and you'll grow up to be an astronaut someday Darth Ex if you eat your oatmeal.

The biggest problem with Breivik is and always was the issues that created him. Breivik is simply a natural and entirely expected reaction that would not have existed without those underlying issues.

I'm not going to discuss the politics behind it. I'm reacting solely to your ridiculous fanboying of a terrorist. Which is what Breivik is. I don't care if was doing it to cure AIDS, cancer and to finish a better file indexing system on harddrives, he's a terrorist.

And finally no, he's not a product. He did it of his own free will. You're free to claim that he was insane though, if you want. He himself denied it.

[Leonhard]

I've had enough of this thread. You go support Breivik if you want Darth Ex, or almost-support or whatever you're doing.

Tweb takes a big tent approach, though you tend to like to skirt the edges and see how far you can push the boundaries. Supporting a terrorist and claiming that he merely picked the wrong targets, is going too far in my mind. I've said my peace, you can respond whatever and pretend that I couldn't come and answer those as well.