The Rise Of Nationalism?

[Jedidiah]

Christmas isn't for another 8 days. Although you're not as bad as my radio, it thinks Christmas starts in the middle of November.

Merry Christmas, Darth.

[Jedidiah]

We've had waves of immigrants into western countries for decades. I think it has more to do with the economic woes western countries are going through, especially the EU. EU is on the brink of economic meltdown so this is very typical. In economic crisis, scapegoats abound, especially racial tension.

You seem to have missed a major part of the OP. Read ,"waves of immigrants into a country who refuse to assimilate." There is a pretty low level of opposition to immigrants who come to the US to become Americans.

[seanD]

You seem to have missed a major part of the OP. Read ,"waves of immigrants into a country who refuse to assimilate." There is a pretty low level of opposition to immigrants who come to the US to become Americans.

I not only read the post, I read the freakin article. I still don't see the significance of that since immigrants usually don't "assimilate." Maybe the issue is what constitutes "assimilate." I've never been to Europe but ever since I can remember immigrants keep their cultural core intact where I was raised, even their own language, and typically live in the same areas as each other. Maybe YOU should read the article...

Its first march, advertised on Facebook and other social media, attracted just 200 supporters. By last week the figure had risen to 10,000. By Monday night it had grown to an estimated 15,000.

“Muslims are plotting to infect our food chain with their excrement,” said a man in his 60s, who refused to give his name.

Another, a middle-aged woman in a red leather jacket, said she was shocked that “asylum seekers in Germany have expensive mobile phones, while I cannot afford such luxury and others still cannot afford to eat properly”.

Yep, economic inspired at least to some degree no doubt. As the titanic sinks, the passengers will continue to lash out at each other. Then we'll start seeing more Ukrainian-type action.

[Darth Executor]

I not only read the post, I read the freakin article. I still don't see the significance of that since immigrants usually don't "assimilate." Maybe the issue is what constitutes "assimilate." I've never been to Europe but ever since I can remember immigrants keep their cultural core intact where I was raised, even their own language, and typically live in the same areas as each other. Maybe YOU should read the article...



Yep, economic inspired at least to some degree no doubt. As the titanic sinks, the passengers will continue to lash out at each other. Then we'll start seeing more Ukrainian-type action.

Breivik didn't butcher all those liberals' kids because he didn't have enough money, he butchered them because muslim immigrants made his youth hell with the backing of the Norwegian government. Kinda like all those pakistani pedophiles in Britain. The economics don't need emphasis since we already know the economic consequencs of mass immigration with little economic growth. No newspaper is gonna quote from the Breivik manifesto though, they'll just find someone to whine about welfare.

[seanD]

Breivik didn't butcher all those liberals' kids because he didn't have enough money, he butchered them because muslim immigrants made his youth hell with the backing of the Norwegian government. Kinda like all those pakistani pedophiles in Britain. The economics don't need emphasis since we already know the economic consequencs of mass immigration with little economic growth. No newspaper is gonna quote from the Breivik manifesto though, they'll just find someone to whine about welfare.

Sure, maybe there are some similarities in the rhetoric, but I'm not sure how you can entirely equate the actions of one lone psychopath in Norway three years ago to an entire movement forming in Germany today. Immigration in western countries is nothing new. It's been ongoing since WW2. Dramatic European economic decline is recent.

[Darth Executor]

Sure, maybe there are some similarities in the rhetoric, but I'm not sure how you can entirely equate the actions of one lone psychopath in Norway three years ago to an entire movement forming in Germany today.

They are the product of the same thing. It's just that most west europeans aren't willing to sacrifice much to do something about it unless they literally have nothing to sacrifice (IE: become poor). Breivik, being neuroatypical, probably didn't care about these things.

Immigration in western countries is nothing new. It's been ongoing since WW2. Dramatic European economic decline is recent.

wat

Mass third world immigration to the west is fairly new. US has had issues with illegal mexicans for quite a bit. Once these people build up in enough numbers the trouble starts.

[seanD]

They are the product of the same thing. It's just that most west europeans aren't willing to sacrifice much to do something about it unless they literally have nothing to sacrifice (IE: become poor). Breivik, being neuroatypical, probably didn't care about these things.



wat

Mass third world immigration to the west is fairly new. US has had issues with illegal mexicans for quite a bit. Once these people build up in enough numbers the trouble starts.

The immigration problem is just one among many things that will intensify strife here in the US, much like the EU.

[Darth Executor]

The immigration problem is just one among many things that will intensify strife here in the US, much like the EU.

It is the main thing that will intensify strife. Without it we could have delayed whatever collapse is coming for a few decades.

[Sparko]

It is not surprising that people in Germany are alarmed by the Islamification of their country. What they do about it is another matter.

well as someone who has family in Germany and goes there every few years, I have some personal experience on the matter. Germany has a lot of turkish immigrants. But for the most part, they do assimilate, learn German and get along with everyone. I think the biggest fear is that in some places they are almost outnumbering the germans and taking away their jobs. There are not that many immigrants from the rest of the middle east as far as I could tell. Some, but by far the largest group is from Turkey. Turkish are not typically knows as radicals or terrorists. It is a country that is pretty friendly to Europeans and Westerners as far as I know.

[Epoetker]

well as someone who has family in Germany and goes there every few years, I have some personal experience on the matter. Germany has a lot of turkish immigrants. But for the most part, they do assimilate, learn German and get along with everyone. I think the biggest fear is that in some places they are almost outnumbering the germans and taking away their jobs. There are not that many immigrants from the rest of the middle east as far as I could tell. Some, but by far the largest group is from Turkey. Turkish are not typically knows as radicals or terrorists. It is a country that is pretty friendly to Europeans and Westerners as far as I know.

And what guarantee or likelihood do you have that the people they send abroad are their best? Mexico is the home of the richest man in the world, but Carlos Slim certainly didn't get that way by helping his poor people where they were.

[Epoetker]

We've had waves of immigrants into western countries for decades. I think it has more to do with the economic woes western countries are going through, especially the EU. EU is on the brink of economic meltdown so this is very typical. In economic crisis, scapegoats abound, especially racial tension.

That's a line The Economist would be proud of. Or The Washington Post, whose latest article reveals the mental inversion for all to see:

Why America’s middle class is lost

The middle class took America to the moon. Then something went horribly wrong.

Written by Jim Tankersley

DOWNEY, CALIF. — One day in 1967, Bob Thompson sprayed foam on a hunk of metal in a cavernous factory south of Los Angeles. And then another day, not too long after, he sat at a long wood bar with a black-and-white television hanging over it, and he watched that hunk of metal land a man on the moon.

On July 20, 1969 — the day of the landing — Thompson sipped his Budweiser and thought about all the people who had ever stared at that moon. Kings and queens and Jesus Christ himself. He marveled at how when it came time to reach it, the job started in Downey. The bartender wept.

On a warm day, almost a half-century later, Thompson curled his mouth beneath a white beard and talked about the bar that fell to make way for a freeway, the space-age factory that closed down and the town that is still waiting for its next great economic rocket, its new starship to the middle class.

They’ve waited more than a decade in Downey. They’ve tried all the usual tricks to bring good-paying jobs back to the 77-acre plot of dirt where once stood a factory that made moon landers and, later, space shuttles. Nothing brought back the good jobs.

Yes, the stock market is soaring, the unemployment rate is finally retreating after the Great Recession and the economy added 321,000 jobs last month. But all that growth has done nothing to boost pay for the typical American worker. Average wages haven’t risen over the last year, after adjusting for inflation. Real household median income is still lower than it was when the recession ended.

And then Steve notes the demographic change:

Here’s Downey’s non-Hispanic white share of the population:

1980: 77.4%

1990: 53.8%

2000: 28.7%

2010: 17.7%

Here’s Downey’s Hispanic share of the population:

1980: 16.8%

1990: 32.3%

2000: 57.9%

2010: 70.7%

Downey itself isn’t particularly poor. In fact here’s a 2013 PBS article half-heartedly referring to Downey as the “Mexican-American Beverly Hills:”

...But if Downey is your giant group’s Beverly Hills, well, the huge growth of your group may help explain one (apparently unmentionable) reason behind “Why America’s middle class is lost.”

Lest anybody fail to get it given Steve's genteel tone:

This decline of the town's middle class and the end of the dream of the space program within it had nothing to do with "economic scapegoating" and everything to do with replacing intelligent, respectable, and rooted white American citizens and their local society with large numbers of whatever Mexican imports worked the cheapest.

If you saw any greatness, excellence, or notability in the US space program at all, then this casual betrayal is far worse that what the leftists in charge are currently doing to John Muir, whose legacy is also being minimized and hushed up to avoid offending America's greatest mediocrities. Sadly, this may be the center-right's particular flavor of that betrayal.

[seanD]

It is the main thing that will intensify strife. Without it we could have delayed whatever collapse is coming for a few decades.

If we're talking about social "collapse," then it's just one among many intensifiers like I said. If we're talking about economic collapse... uh, no. Immigrants had very little to do with the Lehman and Bear Sterns meltdown which cascaded the banking collapse of 2008 and crashed the market. Nor does it have anything to do with the banking crisis in the EU now. That's a totally different ballpark.

[Darth Executor]

If we're talking about social "collapse," then it's just one among many intensifiers like I said. If we're talking about economic collapse... uh, no. Immigrants had very little to do with the Lehman and Bear Sterns meltdown which cascaded the banking collapse of 2008 and crashed the market. Nor does it have anything to do with the banking crisis in the EU now. That's a totally different ballpark.

You think those things are unrelated because you view people as interchangeable drones. Maybe the mexican model is cheaper and less educated, but otherwise not much of a difference. In reality the mere presence of multiple ethnic groups harms social cohesion. Social changes made it much easier for oligarchs to take control of nations and, as a result, for banks to play with people's money. People who don't trust each other won't be able to form strong, cohesive opposition against the interests of informal nobility. Despite progressive insanity insisting you can propagandize it out of people since it's all in your head, most people (particularly those who aren't white, who don't get bombarded with endless "don't be racist" propaganda) won't put aside their tribal interests just to fight off some bankers you and five other guys write incessantly about.

[seanD]

You think those things are unrelated because you view people as interchangeable drones. Maybe the mexican model is cheaper and less educated, but otherwise not much of a difference. In reality the mere presence of multiple ethnic groups harms social cohesion. Social changes made it much easier for oligarchs to take control of nations and, as a result, for banks to play with people's money. People who don't trust each other won't be able to form strong, cohesive opposition against the interests of informal nobility. Despite progressive insanity insisting you can propagandize it out of people since it's all in your head, most people (particularly those who aren't white, who don't get bombarded with endless "don't be racist" propaganda) won't put aside their tribal interests just to fight off some bankers you and five other guys write incessantly about.

I never said anyone would attempt to fight the bankers or that anyone would put aside tribal interests.

[Darth Executor]

I never said anyone would attempt to fight the bankers or that anyone would put aside tribal interests.

You said:

"Immigrants had very little to do with the Lehman and Bear Sterns meltdown which cascaded the banking collapse of 2008 and crashed the market. Nor does it have anything to do with the banking crisis in the EU now. That's a totally different ballpark."

But it does. First they make sure the population can't mount an effective defense. The more different the immigrants are, the better. And in Mexico's case it's also convenient as they'd have trouble explaining why they're shipping, say, steppe muslims from Central America over by the millions. With mexicans they just pretend they can't stop it and partially enforce the border to look like they're trying. Then they just do whatever they like because we're all arguing about microaggressions.