Code Red

[seer]

Well the marines are crazy, and so are you seer.

Besides the danish Frogmen are better trained than Seals... un/fourtunately they don't see nearly as much firefight, so eventually any Seals team become better than a given Frogmen team. But right out of training? Frogmen would beat Seals.

Don't be silly! Danish Frogmen?

[Epoetker]

Once again we are saying breaking the law is not only acceptable in some cases, but positively laudable. Hey, if you think that, that's fine but at least the US should be honest about it instead of going on about all the high minded virtues it self righteously protects.

War <--> Security<--> Despotic order/martial law<--> legal order <--> liberal order
^Soldiery starts here ^laws and their breaking start here

[pancreasman]

War <--> Security<--> Despotic order/martial law<--> legal order <--> liberal order
^Soldiery starts here ^laws and their breaking start here

Thanks. No idea what you're trying to say.

[Epoetker]

Thanks. No idea what you're trying to say.

It is the duty of the liberal to loudly misunderstand the simple truths that give the lie to their entire worldview.

[Manwë Súlimo]

If your initiation ritual isn't the same as King Leonidas in "300", then you haven't been initiated into crap. It's just pointless semi homoerotic • Edited by a Moderator •.

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[pancreasman]

It is the duty of the liberal to loudly misunderstand the simple truths that give the lie to their entire worldview.

Couldn't possibly be your fevered and garbled attempts at communications, I suppose?

[Paprika]

Once again we are saying breaking the law is not only acceptable in some cases, but positively laudable. Hey, if you think that, that's fine but at least the US should be honest about it instead of going on about all the high minded virtues it self righteously protects.

To them, it is a necessary fiction: there would have been much lower popular support and recruitment if what was hidden had been brought to light.

[pancreasman]

To them, it is a necessary fiction: there would have been much lower popular support and recruitment if what was hidden had been brought to light.

So would you say there a disconnect between the values of the American public and the actual behaviour of the U.S. government and military?

[Paprika]

So would you say there a disconnect between the values of the American public and the actual behaviour of the U.S. government and military?

I would say that there is a disconnect between the values espoused and the actual behaviour, which would be indicative of the actual values.

[pancreasman]

I would say that there is a disconnect between the values espoused and the actual behaviour, which would be indicative of the actual values.

Interesting. I imagine all citizens in every country have some sort of this disconnect. Maybe it's my imagination but it seems to me the US is particularly prone to moral rhetoric which doesn't match their real values.

[Paprika]

Interesting. I imagine all citizens in every country have some sort of this disconnect. Maybe it's my imagination but it seems to me the US is particularly prone to moral rhetoric which doesn't match their real values.

Which empire isn't?

The US is especially prone because the Christian majority has historically resolved the tensions between loyalty to Christ and loyalty to Caesar by proclaiming the myth that they are a Christian nation, with predictable results.

[Kristian Joensen]

"Code Red", or as we also called them "blanket parties" (see the movie "Full Metal Jacket") were strictly illegal according to the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice).

I was involved in a number of these - and at times they were quite brutal.

So you broke the law in a brutal manner on a number of occasions and you are proud of this?

[seer]

So you broke the law in a brutal manner on a number of occasions and you are proud of this?

Proud is not the word, necessary is.

[Leonhard]

I think you guys need to be kinder to seer. I don't think he offers these insights in order to say that he loved doing it, he admits it to show us that he's partaken in similar things to what's being discussed. And that its shaped his perspective of whether doing extremely harsh and cruel things can be necessary or justified in certain circumstances.

Despite my critiques of the CIA's internal conduct in regards to the treatments of the detainees, I do have a sympathy for this view.

[Epoetker]

Couldn't possibly be your fevered and garbled attempts at communications, I suppose?

You can't communicate to someone who a priori rejects the message, the message being that effective soldiery is the foundation of any law and order, not the other way around.