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The CIA Torture Report

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I wouldn't be at all opposed to a special prosecutor. I just wish somebody had thought of that before spending 40 Million dollars on a "report" that is generating FAR more heat than light.
    Obama should have simply pardoned any and all involved. He did not want to prosecute, but that did not put the matter to rest. Cheney et al would not have accepted the pardons, but it would have been fun to watch them squirm while the underlings took advantage of the immunity and told the truth freely.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment


    • #47
      Whether the enhanced interrogation techniques (or torture, if you like) was ethical aside, I'm interested that people here appear to want interrogators prosecuted for doing something they were assured, by a whole raft of lawyers, was legal. The government told them it was legal, but now people in the public realm want the government to revoked the implicit immunity conveyed when the DOJ said it was legal in the first place.

      Granted, deviations from the approved practices might be viewed differently from a possible prosecution perspective. But I think it would take a lot to prove criminal intent given the instructions that appear to have been communicated to the 'boots on the ground'.

      I need to study this issue more thoroughly to form much of an opinion beyond what I've said so far.
      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by myth View Post
        Whether the enhanced interrogation techniques (or torture, if you like) was ethical aside, I'm interested that people here appear to want interrogators prosecuted for doing something they were assured, by a whole raft of lawyers, was legal. The government told them it was legal, but now people in the public realm want the government to revoked the implicit immunity conveyed when the DOJ said it was legal in the first place.

        Granted, deviations from the approved practices might be viewed differently from a possible prosecution perspective. But I think it would take a lot to prove criminal intent given the instructions that appear to have been communicated to the 'boots on the ground'.

        I need to study this issue more thoroughly to form much of an opinion beyond what I've said so far.
        Sounds good so far.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by myth View Post
          Whether the enhanced interrogation techniques (or torture, if you like) was ethical aside, I'm interested that people here appear to want interrogators prosecuted for doing something they were assured, by a whole raft of lawyers, was legal. The government told them it was legal, but now people in the public realm want the government to revoked the implicit immunity conveyed when the DOJ said it was legal in the first place.

          Granted, deviations from the approved practices might be viewed differently from a possible prosecution perspective. But I think it would take a lot to prove criminal intent given the instructions that appear to have been communicated to the 'boots on the ground'.

          I need to study this issue more thoroughly to form much of an opinion beyond what I've said so far.
          I pretty much agree with this.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Myth
            I need to study this issue more thoroughly to form much of an opinion beyond what I've said so far.
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            I pretty much agree with this.
            But that hasn't kept you from forming an opinion before studying the issue more thoroughly.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              But that hasn't kept you from forming an opinion before studying the issue more thoroughly.
              If we had to be completely objective in the Civics forum it would get dull.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Feel free to return the favor!
                The thank you was for robrecht.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Nope, just the facts.



                  Do you dispute that?
                  Yes.



                  What good do you expect to come of it?
                  Make the truth public.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Make the truth public.
                    That doesn't even deserve a response.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      If we had to be completely objective in the Civics forum it would get dull.
                      And civil!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        That doesn't even deserve a response.
                        What you have failed to do is document in any way that the report is not true. I looked over the Readers Digest published version, and found a well documented report.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          What you have failed to do is document in any way that the report is not true.
                          That's totally beside the point. I can say "The US dropped nuclear bombs on Japan", and that is true.

                          I looked over the Readers Digest published version, and found a well documented report.
                          Why does this not surprise me in the least?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            That's totally beside the point. I can say "The US dropped nuclear bombs on Japan", and that is true.
                            you could, but so what??!?!?!

                            It remains the fact that you have not presented anything refuting the 500 word report released. None of the criticisms say that his report conflicts with the original volumes not released..



                            Why does this not surprise me in the least?
                            I do not know why it is a surprise. The 500 word report that was released fully documented the evidence. It was not the volume library of the original report of the evidence that has not been released,
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              you could, but so what??!?!?!

                              It remains the fact that you have not presented anything refuting the 500 word report released. None of the criticisms say that his report conflicts with the original volumes not released..

                              I do not know why it is a surprise. The 500 word report that was released fully documented the evidence. It was not the volume library of the original report of the evidence that has not been released,
                              500 pages, not 500 words. That Readers Digest condensed version must have been pretty short!
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                you could, but so what??!?!?!
                                It would be a fact totally out of context.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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