// Required code

Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

More Riots Coming?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • More Riots Coming?

    Doesn't look good... And in this case, I think the cops were in the wrong - excessive force...

    NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand jury ‘Oh my God, are you serious?’ Garner’s widow, Esaw Garner, told The Daily News about the grand jury’s decision not to charge Officer Daniel Pantaleo. ‘You can see in the video that he (the cop) was dead wrong!’ There had been warnings earlier that a decision not to indict the white policeman with a crime for killing a black man would fan tensions.

    BY Tina Moore , Thomas Tracy , Rocco Parascandola , Corky Siemaszko
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2031841
    Last edited by seer; 12-03-2014, 03:19 PM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    I heard one of the commentators claim "if one of the cops had drawn their gun, then Garner would have realized they were serious...."

    Let's be clear about this.... Garner did NOT do anything that would justified use of deadly force, so it's just asinine to claim "the cop should have drawn his gun".

    On the other hand, Brown DID act in a manner that allowed deadly force.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Let's be clear about this.... Garner did NOT do anything that would justified use of deadly force, so it's just asinine to claim "the cop should have drawn his gun".
      Yes...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Doesn't look good... And in this case, I think the cops were in the wrong - excessive force...



        http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2031841
        What excessive force? They restrained the guy because he was resisting arrest. It's sad he had a heart attack in the process but it's not like the cops force fed him an extra 200 pounds. Even square_peg shouldn't have a problem with this as they used non-lethal takedowns instead of shooting him.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a tricky case. For one thing, it was not the officer's intent to kill the suspect, only pacify him until they could get the cuffs on him. Also, it doesn't seem that the chokehold in and of itself was the cause of death:

          "The forbidden chokehold used by a cop to take down a Staten Island man in a deadly encounter Thursday did not damage his windpipe or neck bones, sources said. [...] But a source close to the Medical Examiner’s investigation said coroners are also investigating whether the chokehold still contributed to Garner’s death by aggravating his pre-existing conditions of obesity, asthma and possible heart disease. He died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital."

          http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/man-in-...amage-autopsy/

          But already I'm seeing people claiming that the cop choked him to death. Yeah, and Michael Brown was shot after he quietly surrendered.
          Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-03-2014, 04:48 PM.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            What excessive force? They restrained the guy because he was resisting arrest. It's sad he had a heart attack in the process but it's not like the cops force fed him an extra 200 pounds. Even square_peg shouldn't have a problem with this as they used non-lethal takedowns instead of shooting him.
            It looks more like the "seat belt" take down than a "choke hold" take down. I think that's why those who heard the facts passed on prosecution. He was, indeed, resisting arrest.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              So, what crime was Garner committing when confronted by police? Selling single or "loose" cigarettes.
              WHY was he selling single or "loose" cigarettes? Because there was a market for them.
              WHY was there a market for them? Because the NANNY state had taxed a pack of cigarettes so high that it created a whole new black market.

              So, Garner was arrested, and subsequently died, for circumventing a NANNY state law.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                So, what crime was Garner committing when confronted by police? Selling single or "loose" cigarettes.
                WHY was he selling single or "loose" cigarettes? Because there was a market for them.
                WHY was there a market for them? Because the NANNY state had taxed a pack of cigarettes so high that it created a whole new black market.

                So, Garner was arrested, and subsequently died, for circumventing a NANNY state law.
                Right - selling "loose" cigarettes! Oh what a crime. But how come these cops did not try CPR after he went unconscious?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Right - selling "loose" cigarettes! Oh what a crime. But how come these cops did not try CPR after he went unconscious?
                  I really don't know.... also, even 200 years ago when I was a cop, there was special instruction for arresting such a large person -- particularly the handcuffing behind the back. Some large people are PARANOID about getting arrested, because they can't physically get their hands together behind their backs --- we have often had to "string together" several sets of handcuffs for that purpose, and would calmly explain to the person that we would do that.

                  I don't know if that's a factor or not, but I DO know there are "special circumstances" when arresting a large person like that.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Right - selling "loose" cigarettes! Oh what a crime. But how come these cops did not try CPR after he went unconscious?
                    Let's not try and downplay the crime. Regardless of how dumb we think the law might be, the fact is he was doing something illegal, and based on the video, the police spent several minutes quietly trying to convince him to surrender peacefully, and he was put in a chokehold only after he shoved a cop who attempted to grab his arm.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Let's not try and downplay the crime. Regardless of how dumb we think the law might be, the fact is he was doing something illegal, and based on the video, the police spent several minutes quietly trying to convince him to surrender peacefully, and he was put in a chokehold only after he shoved a cop who attempted to grab his arm.
                      I'm watching the video numerous times, and I'm missing the part where he "shoved a cop". Maybe you have a different video with a better vantage?
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        It looks more like the "seat belt" take down than a "choke hold" take down. I think that's why those who heard the facts passed on prosecution. He was, indeed, resisting arrest.
                        It looked like the take down was "seat belt" but at the end, he definitely had a choke hold on him. But, it was only for a few seconds and the guy obviously wasn't "choked out" as he was talking immediately after.
                        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I'm watching the video numerous times, and I'm missing the part where he "shoved a cop". Maybe you have a different video with a better vantage?
                          You're right. My memory was playing tricks on me. He only attempted to elude the officer's grasp, but he didn't shove him.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            You're right. My memory was playing tricks on me. He only attempted to elude the officer's grasp, but he didn't shove him.
                            OK, not trying to argue, but that could have been "assault".
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                              It looked like the take down was "seat belt" but at the end, he definitely had a choke hold on him. But, it was only for a few seconds and the guy obviously wasn't "choked out" as he was talking immediately after.
                              Yeah.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Whateverman, Yesterday, 08:11 PM
                              0 responses
                              14 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Whateverman  
                              Started by shunyadragon, Yesterday, 07:16 PM
                              9 responses
                              41 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Mountain Man  
                              Started by Whateverman, Yesterday, 12:47 PM
                              10 responses
                              43 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Starlight  
                              Started by Ronson, Yesterday, 10:00 AM
                              33 responses
                              284 views
                              2 likes
                              Last Post Ronson
                              by Ronson
                               
                              Started by seanD, 10-18-2020, 05:25 PM
                              2 responses
                              63 views
                              3 likes
                              Last Post seanD
                              by seanD
                               
                              Working...
                              X