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  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    What would be more helpful, I think, is to look at communities with strict gun laws as opposed to communities with high gun violence. Anybody wanna take a guess at how that plays out?
    Aren't those two the same thing?
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
      Aren't those two the same thing?
      Pretty much! But it depends on the study and who's funding it.
      Last edited by Cow Poke; 11-27-2014, 10:07 AM.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • #33
        I've been looking at various studies, and it's interesting to see how each of them seems to be able to say what they want to say by the way they count, or define, or quantify.... I guess it's like pretty much anything else. And one study will definitively come to a conclusion, then another study will show the flaws in that first study... and so it goes.

        There was an extensive study (I lost it!) that showed that private gun ownership in Russia had decreased dramatically, but Russians just found new ways to murder each other, making them even more murderous than before the decrease in gun ownership.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
          Many cultures all around the world, teach kids about guns and other weapons at a very young age by giving, especially boys, toy weapons or violent computer games. Kids are taught that the use of weapons and violence is pleasurable and there are no adverse consequences because people do not actually die when they are shot by a toy and dead computer game characters can be revived by a reset button. The immediate cause is accidental substitution of a weapon for a toy. If you keep weapons in the home this sort of accidental substitution is always a possibility.

          The poor kid was just doing what he was taught to do.
          Thanks for your input, Jack Thompson. Do you actually have anything beyond dark insinuations that this is the case?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Many cultures all around the world, teach kids about guns and other weapons at a very young age by giving, especially boys, toy weapons or violent computer games. Kids are taught that the use of weapons and violence is pleasurable and there are no adverse consequences because people do not actually die when they are shot by a toy and dead computer game characters can be revived by a reset button. The immediate cause is accidental substitution of a weapon for a toy. If you keep weapons in the home this sort of accidental substitution is always a possibility.

            The poor kid was just doing what he was taught to do.
            Sounds like your typical "blame everyone and everything but the parents" nonsense.

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            • #36
              One of the things I'm seeing in several studies is that there is a disproportionate incidence of gun violence in the South, and a marked disproportionate incidence of gun violence among blacks -- 55% of gun deaths (the vast majority of which are perpetrated by other blacks) vs. their composition of 13% of the population. This could well go to "culture".

              Still, I'm seeing pretty much what I would expect --- studies funded by the NRA or gun manufacturers or lobbies CLEARLY show that gun laws are ineffective to counterproductive, and anti-gun studies, or studies funded by anti-gun groups CLEARLY show there are more deaths relative to more guns, etc.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #37
                Maybe we're focussing a little too much on restrictive gun laws and murders. Accidental gun death really freaks me out. In cases like the OP, this family was obviously not competent to own a handgun. Is there some creative way of addressing this issue without restricting American's beloved right to bear arms?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                  Maybe we're focussing a little too much on restrictive gun laws and murders. Accidental gun death really freaks me out. In cases like the OP, this family was obviously not competent to own a handgun. Is there some creative way of addressing this issue without restricting American's beloved right to bear arms?
                  I will never understand people who own guns, and have small children, and don't take seriously the safety of the situation. When my grandchildren come over, there is not a single gun they can access -- EVER -- unless I intend for them to see any of them.

                  PARTICULARLY a semi-auto, as opposed to a revolver.

                  For a 3 year old child to be able to pull the trigger of a semi-auto, it almost HAD to have been cocked and the safety off.

                  I don't know what else to say --- leaving a loaded semi-auto under the couch where children live is absolutely boneheaded stupid.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • #39
                    as long as we live in a society where inequality is permissible, going unarmed is not a good idea.
                    To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      The prison system is big money in the US. The prison system problem is a separate issue.
                      I hadn't thought this way. But, cui bono?
                      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I keep a .22 loaded with rat shot to kill snakes around the barn, and a .357 for killing feral hogs and coyotes.
                        I hope you won't have to deal with feral humans (1/2 kidding).
                        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          A gun is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
                          cue the movie Shane!
                          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                          [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                            I hope you won't have to deal with feral humans (1/2 kidding).
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Tend to hunt in packs, may have leadership from a distance, can switch from menace to threat at a moment's notice, get extremely riled if you kill one of their number, may be able to operate while you're asleep, can keep a grudge and a siege going, that sort of thing?

                              A simple right to bear arms isn't really proof against that. You need an active, civilized and trustworthy community of people, available 24-7.

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                              • #45
                                I wonder if there might be a correlation between population density and guns. In Europe, most people live in relatively compact villages or densely packed cities where people tend to get around on public transport. In the US there is much more isolation. That might make people more fearful.

                                Some interesting statistics:
                                http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-a...es-statistics/
                                http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...hildren-yearly
                                includes link to pdf report.
                                Notice that guns mostly used for suicide.
                                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                                “not all there” - you know who you are

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