Originally posted by square_peg
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Ferguson shooting indictment announcement coming at 9PM EST
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by square_peg View PostRight...but then, according to Wilson's own testimony, Brown started running away. It takes barely a second to locate and secure the pepper spray before getting out of the car to chase after him.
I'm not. Although aspects of Wilson's testimony personally sound far-fetched to me, I'm going along with them for now, since, you know, Brown can't offer his side of the story. I'm just trying to figure out what could've been done to keep Brown from dying.
Again, for now I'm accepting his testimony, although technically, he said that they were moving out of the street when he noticed the cigarillos. It was at that point that he drove back around and cut them off to confront them.
Once again, I am accepting the explanation for now. Additionally, I can believe that he was the perpetrator and a victim.
http://www.nola.com/news/ferguson/ferguson-all-1.pdf
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Raphael View PostI dunno, we had a situation here in NZ where a chap had been threatening cops. Then there was an incident and we had an Armed Offenders Squad callout to deal with him (NZ cops do not typically carry firearms). The ratbag told the cops he had a gun, and supposedly went for it, so they shot him. When they went to help he told them he had a grenade so they backed off (he had neither). And he is now complaining about why did the cops have to shoot him (he's spending the rest of his life in a wheel chair)
(http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...-was-justified )
The statistics I see racing around social media leave me unconvinced that there are no alternatives to shooting to kill, though I wonder if part of the issue is that guns are so much more prevalent in the US, and that naturally there will be more threats.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by alaskazimm View PostNot to mention a moving target. The local advice around these parts of remote Alaska is that if you are going to carry a revolver for bear defense you need to be able to hit a moving target about the size of a bowling ball with at least 4 of 6 shots in under 6 seconds. It's been estimated that to gain that level of proficiency you need to put about 600 pounds of lead down rage in training. That's 600 pounds and not rounds.
I don't think most departments are able, even if they are willing, to devote that much time and $$ to get their officers to that level.
*edit* btw that 600 pounds of lead works out to about 12,300 rounds in a 44 mag
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Postno. They only had a limited number of them and he was only in one training session where he got to try it out one time.
He already had his gun out from the first altercation in the car. He could not reach his pepper spray during that altercation since it was on the back of his belt on his left side and Brown was trying to grab his gun.
Why do you keep trying to make up excuses for Brown?
He was a criminal and attacked a police officer and would have killed the cop if he had the chance. Instead he got shot and died. It had nothing to do with him being black, and everything to do with him being a thug. Wilson even said he just asked Brown to move out of the street. If he had done so, Wilson would have driven on and Brown would have not been shot and would have had a chance to get away with his robbery of the store. Instead he decided to confront the cop and attack him.
That you keep refusing to accept any explanation and think that no matter what that Brown was the victim here instead of the perpetrator
This isn't a TV cop show where they can just whip out a can of mace or a taser to slow someone down. It was real life
and Brown was threatening Wilson's life. Wilson was justified in using deadly force.
If we truly consider ourselves pro-life, then we have to consistently apply this great value and regard for life to everyone, not just to the unborn. The mere fact that a person's life was being threatened does not give that person the right to end the life of the one threatening him, unless literally every other option has been exhausted...and I'm not sure that was the case.Last edited by fm93; 11-26-2014, 05:27 PM.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIf shooting to wound is so difficult, then what's the explanation for the numbers going around about how police shooting deaths in almost every Western country dwarfs those of the US/are close to nonexistent? (Genuine question here.)
(http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...-was-justified )
Leave a comment:
-
If shooting to wound is so difficult, then what's the explanation for the numbers going around about how police shooting deaths in almost every Western country dwarfs those of the US/are close to nonexistent? (Genuine question here.)
Leave a comment:
-
The guy from the video I posted earlier didn't go down easy either.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by alaskazimm View PostNot to mention a moving target. The local advice around these parts of remote Alaska is that if you are going to carry a revolver for bear defense you need to be able to hit a moving target about the size of a bowling ball with at least 4 of 6 shots in under 6 seconds. It's been estimated that to gain that level of proficiency you need to put about 600 pounds of lead down rage in training. That's 600 pounds and not rounds.
I don't think most departments are able, even if they are willing, to devote that much time and $$ to get their officers to that level.
*edit* btw that 600 pounds of lead works out to about 12,300 rounds in a 44 mag
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Zymologist View PostIt seems to me that a simple trip to a gun range might cure a lot of people of that thinking. Twenty yards (for example) isn't all that far until you're actually trying to shoot accurately at that distance with a handgun. Most people would be shocked at their inaccuracy.
I don't think most departments are able, even if they are willing, to devote that much time and $$ to get their officers to that level.
*edit* btw that 600 pounds of lead works out to about 12,300 rounds in a 44 magLast edited by alaskazimm; 11-26-2014, 02:39 PM.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt seems that we've covered the infeasibility of shooting to wound (outside scripted movies and TV shows) ad nauseam. I cannot believe that anyone still thinks that is a viable option.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by square_peg View PostWhich is a problem, isn't it? Shouldn't he have been carrying one?
This type of pepper spray supposedly has an effective range of twenty feet, while this supposedly can shoot up to eighteen feet. Wilson claims that the final shot was fired when Brown was about eight to ten feet away--if he had time to fire a gun, it seems to me that he also could've had time to whisk out and activate the spray.
Why do you keep trying to make up excuses for Brown? He was a criminal and attacked a police officer and would have killed the cop if he had the chance. Instead he got shot and died. It had nothing to do with him being black, and everything to do with him being a thug. Wilson even said he just asked Brown to move out of the street. If he had done so, Wilson would have driven on and Brown would have not been shot and would have had a chance to get away with his robbery of the store. Instead he decided to confront the cop and attack him.
That you keep refusing to accept any explanation and think that no matter what that Brown was the victim here instead of the perpetrator shows that you live in a fantasy world. This isn't a TV cop show where they can just whip out a can of mace or a taser to slow someone down. It was real life and Brown was threatening Wilson's life. Wilson was justified in using deadly force.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWilson did not carry a taser
and pepper spray has a very limited distance of use.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by square_peg View PostI'm not sure how viable the option is (I understand that it may be difficult to precisely pull off), but as I said, there appear to have been alternatives to shooting him at all.
That last part is true, but according to Wilson's testimony, Brown had initially started to run away, and Wilson had then gotten out of the car and chased after him. I believe he could've quickly grabbed the taser and spray before leaving the car to chase Brown. After all, the problem of being in close quarters and within a confined space doesn't apply outside on the run.
I agree that that would be dumb, except that to me, it's so extraordinary that I have difficulty believing that it happened precisely that way.
And he already wounded Brown and shot off a couple of rounds that caused Brown to run off. Yet even though he was wounded, he turned around and came back to attack Wilson. Brown was the criminal here. He was a bully and a thief. He robbed the store, provoked a policeman, then attacked him in his own car and tried to get his gun, then ran off and turned around and came back at Wilson. If the first shots didn't stop him, then no warning shot, or wounding shot or even taser would have made a difference. The cop was defending his life. He had a right to shoot Brown and he did.
As to why? Brown was bigger than anyone else, and he was obviously used to using his size to get his way. He thought he could intimidate anyone, including a cop. Obviously he was wrong.
Leave a comment:
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
|
6 responses
45 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by whag
Yesterday, 08:38 PM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
|
42 responses
231 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by whag
Yesterday, 03:53 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
|
24 responses
104 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Ronson
Yesterday, 02:40 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
|
32 responses
176 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Yesterday, 08:22 AM | ||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
|
73 responses
299 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Today, 03:51 AM |
Leave a comment: