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  • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    These days, I am a little suspicious that people who still pick on homosexuals (after all this time) might be hiding something.
    http://www.livescience.com/19563-hom...mosexuals.html
    Going by that logic, you must be a closet Conservative Christian.

    Comment


    • I think we agree, homoabhorrence is obsolete; like racism and third-wave feminism.
      “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Going by that logic, you must be a closet Conservative Christian.
        Yeah, good point. Maybe I should give in, buy a truck with a gun rack and keep an eye out for images of Jesus on toasted bread.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
          Yeah, good point. Maybe I should give in, buy a truck with a gun rack and keep an eye out for images of Jesus on toasted bread.
          And move to Texas.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Yeah, good point. Maybe I should give in, buy a truck with a gun rack and keep an eye out for images of Jesus on toasted bread.
            just start out slow, with an AR-15 modified for full auto. Then move on to the pickup and gun rack.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
              I think we agree, homoabhorrence is obsolete; like racism and third-wave feminism.
              Indeed! But historically the Christianity has always "led from behind" on matters of social reform.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Indeed! But historically the Christianity has always "led from behind" on matters of social reform.
                Indeed. And oft times led from the front with regard to the prevention of social reform.
                “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                  Indeed. And oft times led from the front with regard to the prevention of social reform.


                  More revionist history, talked about by people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.

                  Abolitionism is a movement to end slavery, whether formal or informal. In Western European and America, abolitionism was a historical movement to end the African and Indian slave trade and set slaves free. King Charles I of Spain, following the example of the Swedish Monarch, passed a law which would have abolished colonial slavery in 1542, although this law was not passed in the largest colonial states, and so was not enforced. Later, in the 17th century, English Quakers and evangelical religious groups condemned slavery (by then applied mostly to Africans) as un-Christian; in the 18th century, abolition was part of the message of the First Great Awakening in the Thirteen Colonies; and in the same period, rationalist thinkers of the Enlightenment criticized it for violating the rights of man. James Edward Oglethorpe was among the first to articulate the Enlightenment case against slavery, banning it in the Province of Georgia on humanistic grounds, arguing against it in Parliament, and eventually encouraging his friends Granville Sharp and Hannah More to vigorously pursue the cause. Soon after his death in 1785, they joined with William Wilberforce and others in forming the Clapham Sect.[1] The Somersett's case in 1771, which emancipated a slave in England, helped launch the British movement to abolish slavery. Though anti-slavery sentiments were widespread by the late 18th century, the colonies and emerging nations that used slave labor continued to do so: French and English territories in the West Indies, South America, and the South of the United States.
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism


                  Christians lead the abolitionist movement. Did you also know that the first women's rights convention was held at a church? Don't take my word for it, here is the wiki article on it too.

                  Oops, must be embarrassing when you let your hatred of Christianity let you re-write history into your image, eh?
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    Oops, must be embarrassing when you let your hatred of Christianity let you re-write history into your image, eh?
                    Note that I never said always. Christianity has done its fair share of social reforms, but when it comes to slavery, it was very much against the Bible - especially since the Bible supports slavery. I guess it depends upon what kind of Christian you are.

                    Don't let your disdain for me cloud your vision. Read what I write carefully before making assumptions.
                    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                      Note that I never said always.
                      Your words:

                      "And oft times led from the front with regard to the prevention of social reform."

                      And the words of the person you agreed with:

                      "But historically the Christianity has always "led from behind" on matters of social reform."

                      Don't worry, I know you'll try to back peddle you're way out of this because these are just two examples, of many others, that Christianity lead from the front. Back in the days of the Bible, women were the first witnesses to the risen Lord. This is quite a big deal; considering that women couldn't even bet witnesses in court. Don't worry though, I know you have an agenda to press and really don't care about facts, such as that. You made a statement, so I guess the back peddling will continue instead of just admitting that you're wrong.

                      Christianity has done its fair share of social reforms, but when it comes to slavery, it was very much against the Bible - especially since the Bible supports slavery. I guess it depends upon what kind of Christian you are.
                      The old stupidity where people, who don't know social science, try to claim that the Bible supports slavery. Read this article and try to refute it. I don't think you can though because it goes way over your head. The bottom line is though that the slavery mentioned in the Bible is not the slavery used in the 15th-19th century. I know you really hate Christianity, but you can at least try to show you understand the issues before you open your mouth and make yourself look foolish.

                      Don't let your disdain for me cloud your vision. Read what I write carefully before making assumptions.
                      I'm just watching you back peddle away because you can't admit you're wrong. Do tell us how many issues Christians need to lead 'from the front' before your statement becomes wrong. Slavery and women's rights are some pretty major issues over the past 3 centuries and issues that affect us to this day. Sounds like pretty major accomplishments, but I guess back peddling is better than admitting to any sort of error on your parts.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                        Note that I never said always. Christianity has done its fair share of social reforms, but when it comes to slavery, it was very much against the Bible - especially since the Bible supports slavery. I guess it depends upon what kind of Christian you are.
                        The evils of chattel slavery are quite against the spirit of the Bible. The New Testament is at worst neutral in regards to slavery. Male and female, slave and master are to be treated equally. Masters are to treat their slaves justly and fairly (Col. 4:1), not threatening them (Eph. 6:9).
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          Don't worry, I know you'll try to back peddle you're way out of this because these are just two examples, of many others, that Christianity lead from the front. Back in the days of the Bible, women were the first witnesses to the risen Lord. This is quite a big deal; considering that women couldn't even bet witnesses in court. Don't worry though, I know you have an agenda to press and really don't care about facts, such as that. You made a statement, so I guess the back peddling will continue instead of just admitting that you're wrong.
                          No, I admit that I was in error - mainly because this isn't a subject that I study in-depth. No need for the overt hostility, though - nor the ironic lies about agendas and facts. You should be careful when calling others agenda-pushers and that others don't care about facts, when your entire belief system sits upon unverified assumption after unverified assumption. The irony is powerful.


                          I know you really hate Christianity
                          Yes, and I'm entitled to - just as you're entitled to stroke your ego.


                          I'm just watching you back peddle away because you can't admit you're wrong. Do tell us how many issues Christians need to lead 'from the front' before your statement becomes wrong. Slavery and women's rights are some pretty major issues over the past 3 centuries and issues that affect us to this day. Sounds like pretty major accomplishments, but I guess back peddling is better than admitting to any sort of error on your parts.
                          See above. I can most certainly admit when I'm wrong, but your vain persistence is duly and unfortunately noted.
                          “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                            No, I admit that I was in error - mainly because this isn't a subject that I study in-depth. No need for the overt hostility, though - nor the ironic lies about agendas and facts. You should be careful when calling others agenda-pushers and that others don't care about facts, when your entire belief system sits upon unverified assumption after unverified assumption. The irony is powerful.
                            Than you shouldn't be supporting things and/or agreeing with stuff that you don't know much about to begin with. It saves a lot of time and effort when you don't do that. Anyway, atheist have such as many unverified assumptions too. I guess if you project your hostility for a persons belief system, while ignoring the problems with your own, perhaps the silly mistakes will disappear. Right?

                            Yes, and I'm entitled to - just as you're entitled to stroke your ego.
                            You can see this as 'ego stroking' all you want (I know that's better than just seeing you made a silly error), but you have to have an ego, in order to be 'ego stroking' don't you? This is about the facts that you really messed up on. Facts that are rather common knowledge and are not that hard to look up either. For the interested party. Perhaps you should drop the 'anti-theist' tag, until you've gained a better historical knowledge or just don't make sweeping statements on people's beliefs that you clearly don't know.

                            See above. I can most certainly admit when I'm wrong, but your vain persistence is duly and unfortunately noted.
                            And your passive aggressiveness brow beating is duly noted. Again, this is about the facts. If you're going to make broad and sweeping claims about the history of Christianity when it comes to human rights; it does a bit of good to actually know the history of Christianity and human rights to start with.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              Anyway, atheist have such as many unverified assumptions too. I guess if you project your hostility for a persons belief system, while ignoring the problems with your own, perhaps the silly mistakes will disappear. Right?
                              The classic "you're just as bad as us!" argument doesn't work out very well for you - especially when you don't list an example of an unverified assumption that an atheist makes. Name one or more of the problems with atheism, please.


                              Perhaps you should drop the 'anti-theist' tag
                              I'll drop it when religion is abolished, as it rightfully should have been once we hit the age of the Internet.
                              “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ChaosRain View Post
                                The classic "you're just as bad as us!" argument doesn't work out very well for you - especially when you don't list an example of an unverified assumption that an atheist makes. Name one or more of the problems with atheism, please.
                                Irony at its finest since you made a sweeping claim yourself, but it really isn't that hard... for example:

                                What sort of hard evidence do you have that nature is all that exist and all that ever will exist? What sort of verified thing have you found that invalidates all claims of anything that isn't directly linked to nature?

                                That is the big one, one that would require the refutation of every religion that claims that isn't true. Something I know you haven't done and I know no atheist has done either. If you haven't done it, doesn't that make it an unverified claim that is trusted on faith?

                                I'll drop it when religion is abolished, as it rightfully should have been once we hit the age of the Internet.
                                And I'll keep correcting your historical and philosophical errors. It's a hobby of mine that I quite enjoy since anti theist usually don't know the history or philosophy, all that well. Can you give an actual reason why 'religion should be abolished' beyond your opinion that it should be?
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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