Originally posted by firstfloor
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I think we agree, homoabhorrence is obsolete; like racism and third-wave feminism.“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostGoing by that logic, you must be a closet Conservative Christian.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostYeah, good point. Maybe I should give in, buy a truck with a gun rack and keep an eye out for images of Jesus on toasted bread.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by ChaosRain View PostI think we agree, homoabhorrence is obsolete; like racism and third-wave feminism.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIndeed! But historically the Christianity has always "led from behind" on matters of social reform.“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins
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Originally posted by ChaosRain View PostIndeed. And oft times led from the front with regard to the prevention of social reform.
More revionist history, talked about by people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.
Abolitionism is a movement to end slavery, whether formal or informal. In Western European and America, abolitionism was a historical movement to end the African and Indian slave trade and set slaves free. King Charles I of Spain, following the example of the Swedish Monarch, passed a law which would have abolished colonial slavery in 1542, although this law was not passed in the largest colonial states, and so was not enforced. Later, in the 17th century, English Quakers and evangelical religious groups condemned slavery (by then applied mostly to Africans) as un-Christian; in the 18th century, abolition was part of the message of the First Great Awakening in the Thirteen Colonies; and in the same period, rationalist thinkers of the Enlightenment criticized it for violating the rights of man. James Edward Oglethorpe was among the first to articulate the Enlightenment case against slavery, banning it in the Province of Georgia on humanistic grounds, arguing against it in Parliament, and eventually encouraging his friends Granville Sharp and Hannah More to vigorously pursue the cause. Soon after his death in 1785, they joined with William Wilberforce and others in forming the Clapham Sect.[1] The Somersett's case in 1771, which emancipated a slave in England, helped launch the British movement to abolish slavery. Though anti-slavery sentiments were widespread by the late 18th century, the colonies and emerging nations that used slave labor continued to do so: French and English territories in the West Indies, South America, and the South of the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism
Christians lead the abolitionist movement. Did you also know that the first women's rights convention was held at a church? Don't take my word for it, here is the wiki article on it too.
Oops, must be embarrassing when you let your hatred of Christianity let you re-write history into your image, eh?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostOops, must be embarrassing when you let your hatred of Christianity let you re-write history into your image, eh?
Don't let your disdain for me cloud your vision. Read what I write carefully before making assumptions.“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins
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Originally posted by ChaosRain View PostNote that I never said always.
"And oft times led from the front with regard to the prevention of social reform."
And the words of the person you agreed with:
"But historically the Christianity has always "led from behind" on matters of social reform."
Don't worry, I know you'll try to back peddle you're way out of this because these are just two examples, of many others, that Christianity lead from the front. Back in the days of the Bible, women were the first witnesses to the risen Lord. This is quite a big deal; considering that women couldn't even bet witnesses in court. Don't worry though, I know you have an agenda to press and really don't care about facts, such as that. You made a statement, so I guess the back peddling will continue instead of just admitting that you're wrong.
Christianity has done its fair share of social reforms, but when it comes to slavery, it was very much against the Bible - especially since the Bible supports slavery. I guess it depends upon what kind of Christian you are.
Don't let your disdain for me cloud your vision. Read what I write carefully before making assumptions."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by ChaosRain View PostNote that I never said always. Christianity has done its fair share of social reforms, but when it comes to slavery, it was very much against the Bible - especially since the Bible supports slavery. I guess it depends upon what kind of Christian you are.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostDon't worry, I know you'll try to back peddle you're way out of this because these are just two examples, of many others, that Christianity lead from the front. Back in the days of the Bible, women were the first witnesses to the risen Lord. This is quite a big deal; considering that women couldn't even bet witnesses in court. Don't worry though, I know you have an agenda to press and really don't care about facts, such as that. You made a statement, so I guess the back peddling will continue instead of just admitting that you're wrong.
I know you really hate Christianity
I'm just watching you back peddle away because you can't admit you're wrong. Do tell us how many issues Christians need to lead 'from the front' before your statement becomes wrong. Slavery and women's rights are some pretty major issues over the past 3 centuries and issues that affect us to this day. Sounds like pretty major accomplishments, but I guess back peddling is better than admitting to any sort of error on your parts.“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins
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Originally posted by ChaosRain View PostNo, I admit that I was in error - mainly because this isn't a subject that I study in-depth. No need for the overt hostility, though - nor the ironic lies about agendas and facts. You should be careful when calling others agenda-pushers and that others don't care about facts, when your entire belief system sits upon unverified assumption after unverified assumption. The irony is powerful.
Yes, and I'm entitled to - just as you're entitled to stroke your ego.
See above. I can most certainly admit when I'm wrong, but your vain persistence is duly and unfortunately noted."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnyway, atheist have such as many unverified assumptions too. I guess if you project your hostility for a persons belief system, while ignoring the problems with your own, perhaps the silly mistakes will disappear. Right?
Perhaps you should drop the 'anti-theist' tag“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins
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Originally posted by ChaosRain View PostThe classic "you're just as bad as us!" argument doesn't work out very well for you - especially when you don't list an example of an unverified assumption that an atheist makes. Name one or more of the problems with atheism, please.
What sort of hard evidence do you have that nature is all that exist and all that ever will exist? What sort of verified thing have you found that invalidates all claims of anything that isn't directly linked to nature?
That is the big one, one that would require the refutation of every religion that claims that isn't true. Something I know you haven't done and I know no atheist has done either. If you haven't done it, doesn't that make it an unverified claim that is trusted on faith?
I'll drop it when religion is abolished, as it rightfully should have been once we hit the age of the Internet."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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