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  • Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
    But...but who would build the roads??????
    aliens.jpg
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
      The Tea Party would still promote *a form* of government, which is still statism, which is still authoritarian, which is still immoral and unethical. They're a bunch of neo-cons who like to talk like anarchists but are not really into liberty.
      This.

      This right here is why I cannot take you people seriously.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Meta Knight View Post
        This.

        This right here is why I cannot take you people seriously.
        So... by disagreeing with me, you support the notion that the government can forcefully, at the end of a gun and with the threat of a prison sentence, tax all of it's "citizens" even though they may peacefully disagree with the use, reasoning for and whole system of taxation? How is that not unethical?

        To quote Lysander Spooner: "The principle that the majority have a right to rule the minority, practically resolves all government into a mere contest between two bodies of men, as to which of them shall be masters, and which of them slaves."

        I'm also highly insulted at being referred to as "you people." Just crass.
        אָמַר לוֹ יֵשׁוּעַ: אֲנִי הַדֶּרֶךְ וְהָאֱמֶת וְהַחַיִּים. אֵין אִישׁ בָּא אֶל הָאָב אֶלָּא דַּרְכִּי
        "Yeshua said, 'I AM the Way — and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me'" - Yochanan 14:6
        כֻּלָּ֨נוּ֙ כַּצֹּ֣אן תָּעִ֔ינוּ אִ֥ישׁ לְדַרְכֹּ֖ו פָּנִ֑ינוּ וַֽיהוָה֙ הִפְגִּ֣יעַ בֹּ֔ו אֵ֖ת עֲוֹ֥ן כֻּלָּֽנוּ
        "We all, like sheep, went astray; we turned, each one, to his own way; yet HASHEM laid on him the guilt of all of us" - Yesha'yahu 53:6

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
          So... by disagreeing with me, you support the notion that the government can forcefully, at the end of a gun and with the threat of a prison sentence, tax all of it's "citizens" even though they may peacefully disagree with the use, reasoning for and whole system of taxation? How is that not unethical?

          To quote Lysander Spooner: "The principle that the majority have a right to rule the minority, practically resolves all government into a mere contest between two bodies of men, as to which of them shall be masters, and which of them slaves."

          I'm also highly insulted at being referred to as "you people." Just crass.
          And Obama is a socialist and a liar and his feet stink.

          That said, I can't continue this conversation, mainly because I am in and out of massive amounts of pain.

          "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
          "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
          Katniss Everdeen


          Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

          Comment


          • To be honest, I have a hard time understanding why so many Christians take the philosophical stance that government is inherently evil. The Bible doesn't agree with that stance.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
              So... by disagreeing with me, you support the notion that the government can forcefully, at the end of a gun and with the threat of a prison sentence, tax all of it's "citizens" even though they may peacefully disagree with the use, reasoning for and whole system of taxation? How is that not unethical?
              Because that's the price you pay for being a citizen of a country. Unless you plan on advocating for the complete elimination of borders, nations need some form of organization to remain nations. Unless you are working from the utterly absurd notion that, in the absence of a governing authority, people would remain pleasant and accommodating to one another.

              To quote Lysander Spooner: "The principle that the majority have a right to rule the minority, practically resolves all government into a mere contest between two bodies of men, as to which of them shall be masters, and which of them slaves."
              To quote God: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." I don't understand how you can reconcile anarcho-capitalism with Christianity, since it rests on the assumption of human decency rather than human corruption.

              I'm also highly insulted at being referred to as "you people." Just crass.
              I'll live.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
                Umm... thewriteranon just said "Has anyone here even heard of the non-aggression principle?" Were you not paying attention or did you ignore it on purpose?

                The Tea Party would still promote *a form* of government, which is still statism, which is still authoritarian, which is still immoral and unethical. They're a bunch of neo-cons who like to talk like anarchists but are not really into liberty.

                And since when have anarchists ever thrown bombs since the 1886 Haymarket Square riot? Historically, the majority of anarchists encourage nonviolent means for this goal (hence non-aggression principle).

                ...At least, anarcho-capitalists do not throw bombs. I cannot speak for anarcho-communists who are insane.

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]2787[/ATTACH]
                Yeah, I was just going on comic book anarchists I guess.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
                  So... by disagreeing with me, you support the notion that the government can forcefully, at the end of a gun and with the threat of a prison sentence, tax all of it's "citizens" even though they may peacefully disagree with the use, reasoning for and whole system of taxation? How is that not unethical?
                  If you take away the government, whatever government, you leave a vacuum. Greedy unethical forces from around you will simply come in and give you the government they want you to have.

                  Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
                  To quote Lysander Spooner: "The principle that the majority have a right to rule the minority, practically resolves all government into a mere contest between two bodies of men, as to which of them shall be masters, and which of them slaves."
                  The question is not will you be part of this, but will you help to make it the best that fallen men can do. Our Constitution, certainly not perfect, was a pretty good attempt to do that. The fact that it is falling apart only shows that it was not being followed by those at the top.

                  In this world we will never have a perfect, or even a really good system. Why? Whatever you have will be influenced by fallen human beings.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    To be honest, I have a hard time understanding why so many Christians take the philosophical stance that government is inherently evil. The Bible doesn't agree with that stance.
                    In fact, Jesus lived in a nation occupied by foreign troops and a puppet government and didn't seem to care all that much. He just got on with His business of loving the poor, the sick and dispossessed and telling the leaders of his faith discomforting things.

                    Comment


                    • In fact, Jesus lived in a nation occupied by foreign troops and a puppet government and didn't seem to care all that much. He just got on with His business of loving the poor, the sick and dispossessed and telling the leaders of his faith discomforting things.
                      Yep, Jesus just coincidentally resembled my highest conception of myself: a pretty chill guy who said some things that (heh) may have gotten the establishment's panties in a twist occasionally. That's the Divine commission, right there, totally nailed it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                        Yep, Jesus just coincidentally resembled my highest conception of myself: a pretty chill guy who said some things that (heh) may have gotten the establishment's panties in a twist occasionally. That's the Divine commission, right there, totally nailed it.
                        So no actual argument then.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          This is a mockery to every person who has suffered actual violence. Rape victims, abused women, battered children.... it is a sham to compare "evangelism" with violence.
                          Violence is a broad concept that goes well beyond just excessive physical force to include abusive exercise of power, coercion and cruelty. I had already said I was talking about a very subtle form of violence so I do not think it is reasonable to conclude that I am making comparison with rape or the criminal battery of children.

                          You should be ashamed.
                          is an example of the violence I am talking about. It is part of the religious toolkit to abase those it wishes to incorporate and it just loves doing it to the little kiddies because they don’t fight back. But I will on their behalf.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            To be honest, I have a hard time understanding why so many Christians take the philosophical stance that government is inherently evil.
                            They idolise freedom.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                              In fact, Jesus lived in a nation occupied by foreign troops and a puppet government and didn't seem to care all that much. He just got on with His business of loving the poor, the sick and dispossessed and telling the leaders of his faith discomforting things.
                              Merely "discomforting things"?

                              Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do.
                              Jesus tells the audience to obey those who "sit on Moses' seat", recognising and affirming their rightful authority. But this being Jesus, he immediately continues by denouncing them:

                              For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

                              “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

                              “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

                              “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

                              “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

                              “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

                              “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Y'hoshua View Post
                                So... by disagreeing with me, you support the notion...
                                This line of logic never seems to end well.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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