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Pastors Face Jail?

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  • Pastors Face Jail?

    More loss of religious liberty!

    On a Sunday morning, congregants fill the campus of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills, a non-denominational evangelical church located in the heart of Southern California. Since the church’s inception, Senior Pastor Jack Hibbs – a strong pro-life proponent – has encouraged his congregation to uphold religious values and fundamental liberties in the public square. Now, the church is opposing a California mandate egregiously imposed on religious institutions across the Golden State. The congregation is challenging a decision by the California Department of Managed Healthcare that forces all employers, including churches, to provide coverage for elective abortions in all health insurance plans.

    We will take this to the point of being jailed, if necessary, being arrested, if necessary – whatever it takes. I cannot violate my biblical worldview,” Hibbs said. “Once I have to do that, I no longer live in the United States our founding fathers gave me.”
    http://liveactionnews.org/pastor-id-...ding-abortion/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    More loss of religious liberty!
    Your thread titles are getting somewhat misleading seer. Where did the pastor face these things? He's saying he'll fight even if it means going to jail (which its left somewhat ambigious) but has he been threatened with that?

    Even if he hasn't, I'd say that there are things he could do in an attempt to defend the unborn that would warrant that he get himself arrested.

    All that being said, forcing people to pay for other people's abortions is horrible. I agree with that.

    Comment


    • #3
      He did use a question mark...

      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        He did use a question mark...
        In that case, the answer to his question is, "No."
        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
          In that case, the answer to his question is, "No Not yet."
          Fixed.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            Fixed.
            The answer is 'already have'. Abortion doctor murders, vandalists smashing cars, gluing together doors of abortion clinics, death threats, throwing bricks through windows... very unchristian behavior.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              Your thread titles are getting somewhat misleading seer. Where did the pastor face these things? He's saying he'll fight even if it means going to jail (which its left somewhat ambigious) but has he been threatened with that?

              Even if he hasn't, I'd say that there are things he could do in an attempt to defend the unborn that would warrant that he get himself arrested.

              All that being said, forcing people to pay for other people's abortions is horrible. I agree with that.
              Well that is why I use the question mark in the title. I think these pastors are prepared to take it that far though.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                In that case, the answer to his question is, "No."
                Why? The state is going to force the issue. If not jail time then certainly there will be heavy fines. Either way it is wicked and a clear loss of liberty.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Well that is why I use the question mark in the title. I think these pastors are prepared to take it that far though.
                  Considering what's legal grounds for arrest today, what would that be seer?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    Considering what's legal grounds for arrest today, what would that be seer?
                    Will the pastors not be violating California law?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Will the pastors not be violating California law?
                      I doubt they'll be arrested if they refuse to pay, the IRS will simple remove the tax-exemption status.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        I doubt they'll be arrested if they refuse to pay, the IRS will simple remove the tax-exemption status.
                        No, the IRS has nothing to do with this. They will be violating state law not federal. So the state will decide the punishment.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          No, the IRS has nothing to do with this. They will be violating state law not federal. So the state will decide the punishment.
                          Thank you, it was hard for me to see this. Its going to be interesting to see what will happen from this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            The answer is 'already have'. Abortion doctor murders, vandalists smashing cars, gluing together doors of abortion clinics, death threats, throwing bricks through windows... very unchristian behavior.
                            Which of these things were done by pastors (or anyone else) in defense of Freedom of Religion? What Christian churches or organizations have supported these things? Non Christians (or even stupid Christians) are prone to behavior that is not Christian.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              Which of these things were done by pastors (or anyone else) in defense of Freedom of Religion?
                              That's a fair distinction.

                              What Christian churches or organizations have supported these things?
                              In principle no Christian group could support this without making themselves enemies of Christ and seriously jeopardizing their salvation. I am also not aware of any Christian group who have advocated these things explicitly.

                              Non Christians (or even stupid Christians) are prone to behavior that is not Christian.
                              Why point out the non-Christians? I thought we were talking about Christians embarking on actively breaking the law. The situation is different in my country Jedidiah, the only way I can avoid funding abortion here, is by actively opting out of paying my taxes, and I'm not allowed to do that. The position of the Catholic Church here is that in paying taxes, I do not support abortion, since I'm not in control over how the money is spent. There are no pro-life candidates to vote for at all.

                              So here its a matter of "Render unto Caesar", and I'd be going against God's will be refusing to recognize the authority of the state.

                              Hopefully you guys won't end up in the same position.

                              Comment

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