Abortion and Feminism split from "Look at me" thread

[seer]

Objectification is a fundamental feminist concept that, put simply, involves the reduction of a person as a dignified free agent.

Like when they objectify their unborn children and kill them in the womb? Feminists have zero moral ground to stand on as long as they support unbridled abortion.

[Leonhard]

Like when they objectify their unborn children and kill them in the womb? Feminists have zero moral ground to stand on as long as they support unbridled abortion.

I'm sorry but this is absurd seer. Even if I disagree with the feminists on many things (most of all the issue of abortion), I would be wrong to go against their criticisms of the sexual objectification of women, since this was serious Christian moralists are also against.

[KingsGambit]

Like when they objectify their unborn children and kill them in the womb? Feminists have zero moral ground to stand on as long as they support unbridled abortion.

Dude, why are you arguing against a criticism of objectification? Let me guess, it's because the evil liberals support it so naturally anything they support must be wrong?

[seer]

I'm sorry but this is absurd seer. Even if I disagree with the feminists on many things (most of all the issue of abortion), I would be wrong to go against their criticisms of the sexual objectification of women, since this was serious Christian moralists are also against.

No Leonhard, sorry, any group that advocates the killing of unborn children have lost all moral authority in my mind. It's not that I now agree that objectification of women is a good thing - I don't. But the fact is they are hypocrites - they objectify their own babies to make disposal more acceptable.

[Leonhard]

No Leonhard, sorry, any group that advocates the killing of unborn children have lost all moral authority in my mind. It's not that I now agree that objectification of women is a good thing - I don't. But the fact is they are hypocrites - they objectify their own babies to make disposal more acceptable.

So basically... you're going to resist and fight them everywhere... also when they disagree with you? Or when they highlight things that you agree are wrong, instead of agreeing with them, you antagonize them? How exactly is what you're saying going to work out?

And what's done in abortion is not objectification, its worse, its dehumanization.

[fm93]

No Leonhard, sorry, any group that advocates the killing of unborn children have lost all moral authority in my mind. It's not that I now agree that objectification of women is a good thing - I don't. But the fact is they are hypocrites - they objectify their own babies to make disposal more acceptable.

While I don't support abortion (except in extreme cases), one can at least make a case that the fetus isn't morally equivalent to a human person yet, whereas there is no doubt that women ARE human people. It makes no sense to say "Look, these feminists treat that which might not have personhood yet as an object! They're hypocritical to complain about women who clearly do have personhood being treated as objects!"

[Bill the Cat]

...one can at least make a case that the fetus isn't morally equivalent to a human person yet, "

No, one can't.

[seer]

So basically... you're going to resist and fight them everywhere... also when they disagree with you? Or when they highlight things that you agree are wrong, instead of agreeing with them, you antagonize them? How exactly is what you're saying going to work out?

Sorry Leonhard, I'm tried of playing nice with feminists. They are a deeply wicked and hypocritical lot and not deserving of moral respect.

And what's done in abortion is not objectification, its worse, its dehumanization.

It's both.

In social philosophy, objectification means treating a person as a thing, without regard to their dignity.

According to the philosopher Martha Nussbaum, a person is objectified if they are treated:[1]

as a tool for another's purposes (instrumentality);
as if lacking in agency or self-determination (denial of autonomy, inertness);
as if owned by another (ownership);
as if interchangeable (fungibility);
as if permissible to damage or destroy (violability);
as if there is no need for concern for their feelings and experiences (denial of subjectivity).

[seer]

While I don't support abortion (except in extreme cases), one can at least make a case that the fetus isn't morally equivalent to a human person yet, whereas there is no doubt that women ARE human people. It makes no sense to say "Look, these feminists treat that which might not have personhood yet as an object! They're hypocritical to complain about women who clearly do have personhood being treated as objects!"

An unborn child is a human being. What other kind of being could it be? And person hood is a completely arbitrary designation, not worthy of serious debate.

[Leonhard]

Sorry Leonhard, I'm tried of playing nice with feminists. They are a deeply wicked and hypocritical lot and not deserving of moral respect.

You still haven't told me how you plan to carry this out. If I saw a feminist getting harassed on the street I'd spring to his or her aid.

It's both.

Dehumanization does contain permission to destroy. However I don't think its worth quibbling about terminology.

[Zymologist]

While I don't support abortion (except in extreme cases), one can at least make a case that the fetus isn't morally equivalent to a human person yet, whereas there is no doubt that women ARE human people. It makes no sense to say "Look, these feminists treat that which might not have personhood yet as an object! They're hypocritical to complain about women who clearly do have personhood being treated as objects!"

What would be an example of an extreme case?

Edit: if the derail is unwanted, then feel free to disregard this.

[Leonhard]

Please, lets not have this descend into an anti-abortion debate. This is about the OP.

[Bill the Cat]

Please, lets not have this descend into an anti-abortion debate. This is about the OP.

Moderated By: Bill the Cat

I split it off into its own thread

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

[seer]

You still haven't told me how you plan to carry this out. If I saw a feminist getting harassed on the street I'd spring to his or her aid.

Of course, I would to. And the only thing I do is post my views on boards like this, or in Op Ed pieces. Or in daily conversation. And yes, vote conservative.

Dehumanization does contain permission to destroy. However I don't think its worth quibbling about terminology.

OK

[Jedidiah]

Please, lets not have this descend into an anti-abortion debate. This is about the OP.

An anti abortion thread is a good thread.