Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
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Churches Are Standing Up!
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is fine, but the point is, why should we lose the right to endorse a candidate if we feel so inclined?
If you agree to work for Apple and your boss sends you out on the floor, your job is contingent upon you not hawking Android phones. You might want to (they are better, after all) and you still have a right to do so but it's a violation of the contract you made and your employer has every right to terminate that broken contract.
Unless you can find a specific and detailed argument that taxing religious institutions violates the Constitution, move on — there's nothing to see here."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostAnd I am curious how many of those out there who want to endorse church candidates actually have programs like your church does. Maybe most of them do, I'm just curious.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostWhich?
And does it not follow that the point of the amendment was to attempt to restrict the speech of at least those organisations?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostOff the top of my head, there were the Carnegie, Ford, and Rockefeller Foundations, and the Facts Forum.
No. It was an attempt to close campaign oversight and taxation loopholes which those organizations were attempting to exploit.
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostWhat loopholes? Why do a blanket prohibition if the targets were not many?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Sam View PostAny church leader retains that right, even when standing on the pulpit. He or she just loses the special privilege of tax exemption that is contingent upon that endorsement not being preached from the pulpit.
Unless you can find a specific and detailed argument that taxing religious institutions violates the Constitution, move on — there's nothing to see here.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post. . . it's not the end of the world if the government reverses course.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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I believe that the government does not have any right to have any control over churches. On the other hand I do not see any problem with getting across the message desired without actively specifying on candidate.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIt takes some chutzpah to voluntarily petition to become a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt entity, knowingly and brazenly violate the conditions of being a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt entity, and then claim that the rules for this voluntary membership are unconstitutional.
This is a "terms of service" situation — if you want to apply for and maintain tax-exempt status, you agree to the rules for tax-exempt status
§508. Special rules with respect to section 501(c)(3) organizations
(a) New organizations must notify Secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status
Except as provided in subsection (c), an organization organized after October 9, 1969, shall not be treated as an organization described in section 501(c)(3)-
(1) unless it has given notice to the Secretary in such manner as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe, that it is applying for recognition of such status, or
(2) for any period before the giving of such notice, if such notice is given after the time prescribed by the Secretary by regulations for giving notice under this subsection.
(b) Presumption that organizations are private foundations
Except as provided in subsection (c), any organization (including an organization in existence on October 9, 1969) which is described in section 501(c)(3) and which does not notify the Secretary, at such time and in such manner as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe, that it is not a private foundation shall be presumed to be a private foundation.
(c) Exceptions
(1) Mandatory exceptions
Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to-
(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, or
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course it does. Either you refrain the church from speaking A in the pulpit or we will tax you. And when you tax the church you restrict their available capital to speak and function as they see fit. So either way you are impinging on their ability to speak or act. How is this a separation of church and state?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThis presumes that the default state is tax exemption, which is a false presumption.
That organization is voluntarily restricting its own speech or action.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI looked up the law:
It appears churches are automatically considered 501(c)(3) tax-exempt entities."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is the problem - it shouldn't be special privilege. It wasn't for most of our history - correct?
Originally posted by seer View PostOf course it does. Either you refrain the church from speaking A in the pulpit or we will tax you. And when you tax the church you restrict their available capital to speak and function as they see fit. So either way you are impinging on their ability to speak or act. How is this a separation of church and state?"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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