Is the Affordable Care Act Working?

[Sam]

humor
[hyoo-mer or, often, yoo-] Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
a comic, absurd, or incongruous quality causing amusement:
the humor of a situation.
2.
the faculty of perceiving what is amusing or comical:
He is completely without humor.
3.
an instance of being or attempting to be comical or amusing; something humorous :
The humor in his joke eluded the audience.
4.
the faculty of expressing the amusing or comical:
The author's humor came across better in the book than in the movie.
5.
comical writing or talk in general; comical books, skits, plays, etc.
6.
humors, peculiar features; oddities; quirks:
humors of life.
7.
mental disposition or temperament.

"Laughter without a tinge of philosophy is but a sneeze of humor. Genuine humor is replete with wisdom."

Twain

[Sam]

I guess you don't have a sense of humor after all, Mr. Spock.

And as far as I can tell, when you force someone to use your product or face huge fines, that is isn't the definition of "success" in my book. So claiming how many people are using the ACA as a success story is pretty disingenuous.

It's not disingenuous, it just doesn't comport with your definition of "success." Of course, since your definition prevents the ACA from being a success in any possible world, yours is a fairly useless definition to utilize when trying to judge the law on its own merit.

[seer]

It's not disingenuous, it just doesn't comport with your definition of "success." Of course, since your definition prevents the ACA from being a success in any possible world, yours is a fairly useless definition to utilize when trying to judge the law on its own merit.

So you define success when people purchase a product under the threat of penalty and fines? And it looks like about half of these went on Medicare - so once again, making them dependent on government. And taking our hard earned tax dollars.

Since last October, federal officials say, 8.7 million people have been added to the Medicaid rolls, 7.5 million of them in the 27 states that have expanded Medicaid eligibility. That is comparable to the 7.3 million people who obtained private insurance through the exchanges in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

“States that expanded Medicaid have seen a remarkable reduction in the number of uninsured, a drop of nearly 40 percent,” said Stan Dorn, a health policy expert at the Urban Institute, a nonprofit research group. “That compares with a reduction of less than 10 percent in states that have not expanded.”

[Bill the Cat]

I've now had to change my plan to the ACA approved one through my work. Premium went up again this year, but about as much as last year. Deductible now sits at 5,000 for the family (up from 3,000 last year), and coverage is now 80/20 instead of last year's 90/10. It sure isn't more affordable for me...

[Sparko]

It's not disingenuous, it just doesn't comport with your definition of "success." Of course, since your definition prevents the ACA from being a success in any possible world, yours is a fairly useless definition to utilize when trying to judge the law on its own merit.

Success would be you offer a product to people who can purchase it or not, without coercion. If it sells, it is a success. If it doesn't it is a failure. Forcing someone to pay for your health insurance or spend MORE in fines for not paying for it, is not a success, nor can it ever be.

[seer]

I've now had to change my plan to the ACA approved one through my work. Premium went up again this year, but about as much as last year. Deductible now sits at 5,000 for the family (up from 3,000 last year), and coverage is now 80/20 instead of last year's 90/10. It sure isn't more affordable for me...

And it isn't more affordable for most middle class families. Of course that was never the intent - wealth distribution was....

[Sam]

So you define success when people purchase a product under the threat of penalty and fines?

I don't consider that a disqualifying factor for success. And neither does anyone else, really. I haven't heard complaints about how automobile regulations are abject failures because of the need to purchase auto insurance. Coincidentally, I also haven't heard from Conservatives about how Voter ID is an abject failure because of the need to purchase copies of identification, despite the penalty for not doing so is disenfranchisement.

No, I don't think many people at all really consider it a disqualifying factor of success on its own merit. Those that do in some cases but not others seem to be being a bit disingenuous.

[Bill the Cat]

Auto insurance is generally purchased to cover damage you did to someone else's property. Health insurance isn't. That's the difference in mandating one and not the other.

[seer]

I don't consider that a disqualifying factor for success. And neither does anyone else, really. I haven't heard complaints about how automobile regulations are abject failures because of the need to purchase auto insurance. Coincidentally, I also haven't heard from Conservatives about how Voter ID is an abject failure because of the need to purchase copies of identification, despite the penalty for not doing so is disenfranchisement.

No, I don't think many people at all really consider it a disqualifying factor of success on its own merit. Those that do in some cases but not others seem to be being a bit disingenuous.

And according to the link about half of those who got on a plan are on Medicaid - is that success to you? More people on the dole, mooching hard earned money from the rest of us?

[Sparko]

I don't consider that a disqualifying factor for success. And neither does anyone else, really. I haven't heard complaints about how automobile regulations are abject failures because of the need to purchase auto insurance. Coincidentally, I also haven't heard from Conservatives about how Voter ID is an abject failure because of the need to purchase copies of identification, despite the penalty for not doing so is disenfranchisement.

No, I don't think many people at all really consider it a disqualifying factor of success on its own merit. Those that do in some cases but not others seem to be being a bit disingenuous.

I have decided to mandate that you pay $500/month to theologyweb to post here so that we can be a success. I eagerly await your paypal subscription.

[Bill the Cat]

And according to the link about half of those who got on a plan are on Medicaid - is that success to you? More people on the dole, mooching hard earned money from the rest of us?

That's not all that is telling from the link...

Source: Article

Eighty-five percent of those who signed up during the enrollment period qualified for federal subsidies to help pay premiums

© Copyright Original Source

So, no, it isn't affordable for them alone. It is affordable for them with the taxpayers' help. And those who already HAD insurance are seeing premium increases, many upwards of double digits

Decrease in 17 markets. Increase less than 10 percent in 87 markets. Increase more than 10 percent in 58 markets

[seer]

That's not all that is telling from the link...

Source: Article

Eighty-five percent of those who signed up during the enrollment period qualified for federal subsidies to help pay premiums

© Copyright Original Source

So, no, it isn't affordable for them alone. It is affordable for them with the taxpayers' help. And those who already HAD insurance are seeing premium increases, many upwards of double digits

Exactly, it was all about wealth distribution - taking from the producers and giving it to the free riders...

[Zymologist]

For the ACA supporters, I'm curious: what would have qualified it as a failure, in your opinion?

[Sam]

For the ACA supporters, I'm curious: what would have qualified it as a failure, in your opinion?

Failure to significantly reduce the rate of uninsured individuals, failure to stay withing the CBO's projected costs, failure to keep insurers in the exchanges, failure of the exchanges to work, failure to contribute to slowing the increasing rate of health costs, failure to uphold minimum essential benefits.

All of those are factors by which we can judge the ACA on its merits, rather than on politics or ideology. And, to date, the ACA has failed at none of them.

[Zymologist]

Failure to significantly reduce the rate of uninsured individuals, failure to stay withing the CBO's projected costs, failure to keep insurers in the exchanges, failure of the exchanges to work, failure to contribute to slowing the increasing rate of health costs, failure to uphold minimum essential benefits.

All of those are factors by which we can judge the ACA on its merits, rather than on politics or ideology. And, to date, the ACA has failed at none of them.

What about failure to fulfill what it was promised to?

Regardless, I think your last sentence is where the conflict lies.