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  • #31
    Originally posted by myth View Post
    Interesting. Supports what I said from the very beginning, so I'll be interested to see what the Grand Jury's decision is.

    I'm glad the local residents are motivated to change their government, but disappointed that they had to pick a (probably) justified shooting to be their rallying cry. It makes them look ill-informed, biased, and generally incompetent.
    I feel bad for the local residents who are genuinely trying for change (and I know there are some), because it seems like they're being drowned out by out of town agitators.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #32
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I feel bad for the local residents who are genuinely trying for change (and I know there are some), because it seems like they're being drowned out by out of town agitators.
      The change they want is for the cops to stop shooting violent thugs so I don't see why anyone should feel bad for them.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        The change they want is for the cops to stop shooting violent thugs so I don't see why anyone should feel bad for them.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I think his post is worth more than that. Why do you think of it as a straw man?
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • #35
            Because there are legitimate issues around police power - and its abuse or perceived abuse. Those were what KG referred to so it's a strawman from that perspective.

            That said, there's a reason there were so many agitators and DE has a perfectly valid point where that crowd is concerned.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
              I think his post is worth more than that. Why do you think of it as a straw man?
              Because they have addressed many specific issues; the relationships between police departments and their citizens, whether the police need morem outside oversight, whether the police department should be more representative of a city's population as opposed to being 97% white in a majority black community; and a number of others. To portray it as nothing more than whether the police should shoot (alleged; we still believe in innocent until proven guilty in a court of law) criminals on sight is disingenuous.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Because they have addressed many specific issues; the relationships between police departments and their citizens, whether the police need morem outside oversight, whether the police department should be more representative of a city's population as opposed to being 97% white in a majority black community; and a number of others. To portray it as nothing more than whether the police should shoot (alleged; we still believe in innocent until proven guilty in a court of law) criminals on sight is disingenuous.
                There are issues, but they need to be addressed without a riot. Oh and I apologize I missed the part where Darth advocated shooting suspects on sight. I thought he meant those in the middle of an attack.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  You agreed with it - you even called it justified. Need to clarify when you agree with a premise just what part you agree with.
                  Listen, in my state this happened in our Capitol city. In the sixties and seventies the crime rate went through the roof (it is still through the roof) and the schools went to pot. They called it "white flight." That was because the large majority of people who had the means to move out of these liberal hell holes were white. I just don't necessarily see race as the main issue. For instance, in the linked article from the Washington Post they blame Detroit's decline on "white flight." But they don't know the motivation of the whites that left which may have had more to do with the riots of the sixties - but they still call it "white flight."


                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...e8a_story.html
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    Then don't use the term because that isn't what it means.
                    Source: Merriam Webster online

                    white flight
                    noun

                    : an occurrence in which many white people move out of a city as more and more people of other races move in
                    Full Definition of WHITE FLIGHT
                    : the departure of whites from places (as urban neighborhoods or schools) increasingly or predominantly populated by minorities

                    © Copyright Original Source


                    I don't see anything about motives in there. Cities in the US have historically tended to be magnets for the poor looking for work; children of the working poor would tend to move away as they had opportunity. It just happens that immigration patterns (where much of the working poor originated) have shifted from mostly white to mostly non-white. Racism has nothing to do with that. Now that we have welfare, the children of the non-working poor tend to be also non-working poor and thus trapped there.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Source: Merriam Webster online

                      white flight
                      noun

                      : an occurrence in which many white people move out of a city as more and more people of other races move in
                      Full Definition of WHITE FLIGHT
                      : the departure of whites from places (as urban neighborhoods or schools) increasingly or predominantly populated by minorities

                      © Copyright Original Source


                      I don't see anything about motives in there. Cities in the US have historically tended to be magnets for the poor looking for work; children of the working poor would tend to move away as they had opportunity. It just happens that immigration patterns (where much of the working poor originated) have shifted from mostly white to mostly non-white. Racism has nothing to do with that. Now that we have welfare, the children of the non-working poor tend to be also non-working poor and thus trapped there.
                      If the connotation didn't exist, people wouldn't be using it as a club, would they? I doubt anyone really thought 'fleeing bad neighborhood irrespective of race' (including Seer) when they saw the term. It's an implication of racism - not necessarily a correct one - but the connotation is definitely there and it's a foolish phrase to use or justify when there are plenty of other words in the language that don't convey that connotation.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Listen, in my state this happened in our Capitol city. In the sixties and seventies the crime rate went through the roof (it is still through the roof) and the schools went to pot. They called it "white flight." That was because the large majority of people who had the means to move out of these liberal hell holes were white. I just don't necessarily see race as the main issue. For instance, in the linked article from the Washington Post they blame Detroit's decline on "white flight." But they don't know the motivation of the whites that left which may have had more to do with the riots of the sixties - but they still call it "white flight."


                        http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...e8a_story.html

                        Which doesn't change the implication - the term still carries a racist connotation and it's not actually necessary to use it. Since you knew full well that the connotation existed - you admitted on this page - the responsibility to make it clear what you were and were not agreeing with remains with you.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Which doesn't change the implication - the term still carries a racist connotation and it's not actually necessary to use it. Since you knew full well that the connotation existed - you admitted on this page - the responsibility to make it clear what you were and were not agreeing with remains with you.
                          Well no, I didn't even think of race until you brought it up. When the term was used in my state it wasn't in the context of white people not wanting to live with black people. Just like the Washington Post link. It was about escaping crime and horrible schools, and the fact was it was generally the white middle class that had the means to leave.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Well no, I didn't even think of race until you brought it up. When the term was used in my state it wasn't in the context of white people not wanting to live with black people. Just like the Washington Post link. It was about escaping crime and horrible schools, and the fact was it was generally the white middle class that had the means to leave.
                            You didn't think of race at all about a term called white flight?
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              You didn't think of race at all about a term called white flight?
                              No because, like in my state, it was mostly the white middle class that fled the larger cities. And not because they necessarily were racist.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                No because, like in my state, it was mostly the white middle class that fled the larger cities. And not because they necessarily were racist.
                                I'm actually seeing seer's point here... there was "white flight" where I lived in Tyler, but I never thought of it as "those blacks and mexicans" --- I just thought of it as "I don't want to live in one of the high crime areas of the city".
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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