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Income Inequality?

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  • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
    I'm interested. Could you describe a solution to this (as briefly as you like), economically?
    It starts by seeing the economy primarily as something that's supposed to serve human needs rather than something whose needs we must fill by our labor. Or, as I said before, businesses exist to participate in the common good. A business owner seeks profit only insofar as it helps to sustain the business, which also includes providing for the needs of employees. A business owner might ask those who benefit from the goods or services he provides to compensate him at a rate which will allow him to continue providing those goods or services. In other words, a business owner makes a product, charges consumers for it, and pays his employees. In a lot of ways, it doesn't look all that different from what we already have, but profits are made to serve people rather than the other way around.

    I'd say more, but participating in this thread has been kind of exhausting, and I need to do some other things today.
    Last edited by Spartacus; 10-22-2014, 02:40 PM.
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      Is charity important because it allows rich people to feel good about themselves, or because it helps the poor to survive?
      It is only charity if it was voluntary. Giving out of obligation is just another word for taxation.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
        It seriously disturbs me that so many self-professed Christians seem so unwilling to consider how Christian virtues should affect the way we see and engage in economic behaviors: avarice, once believed to be a deadly sin, is now taken for granted and assumed to be good.
        You are still confused. I believe, and would encourage everyone - businessmen or not - to apply Christian principles to their entire lives. I have the constitutional right to influence my government. I do not have a constitutional right to force businesses to do what I think is right.

        I agree that many, even most, high level business people (I won't go into government people right now) are greedy and should be more generous with their employees. What you seem to want to do is wrong in my opinion.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          You have apples and oranges here. Not everyone in America is Christian or allows Christian principles to guide them. On the other hand those of us who are Christians have every right to try to encourage public morality. Just because I am a Christian does not mean I can no longer vote or protest for what I believe. That is not just a right for atheists.
          Which is precisely why I think Christians should be as eager to argue for Christian morals in the boardroom as in the bedroom. Sparko's the one who said that Christian ethics are irrelevant to business.
          Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
            It starts by seeing the economy primarily as something that's supposed to serve human needs rather than something whose needs we must fill by our labor. Or, as I said before, businesses exist to participate in the common good. A business owner seeks profit only insofar as it helps to sustain the business, which also includes providing for the needs of employees. A business owner might ask those who benefit from the goods or services he provides to compensate him at a rate which will allow him to continue providing those goods or services. In other words, a business owner makes a product, charges consumers for it, and pays his employees. In a lot of ways, it doesn't look all that different from what we already have, but profits are made to serve people rather than the other way around.

            I'd say more, but participating in this thread has been kind of exhausting, and I need to do some other things today.
            so the more profit, the more people can be served, right?

            Not everyone hoards profits like Scrooge McDuck. Most companies use profits to pay their shareholders, expand the business, increase the quality of the product and pay and working conditions for their employees. Sounds pretty much like what you want already.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              Which is precisely why I think Christians should be as eager to argue for Christian morals in the boardroom as in the bedroom. Sparko's the one who said that Christian ethics are irrelevant to business.
              That's not what I said. It was that your claiming that business should be run based on Christian ideals was irrelevant to this thread. Not everyone is a Christian and you can't expect them to be controlled by Christian ideas, and even if they were, your idea of Christian ethics regarding business are not necessarily correct. You think profits are bad and should be controlled. That isn't Christian ethics at all. As I said, how do you know that the business is not using its profits to help others? So limiting their profits could be limiting the amount of good work they could be doing.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                It is only charity if it was voluntary. Giving out of obligation is just another word for taxation.
                That reminds me of the trend among many schools to require students to do volunteer work. If it is required then it can hardly be considered volunteering.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Not everyone in America is Christian. So appealing to Christian values and notions of sin in regards to business practices is a non-sequitur.
                  Not everyone in America is Christian. So appealing to Christian values and notions of sin in regards to matrimonial practices is a non-sequitur.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    which side are you arguing on anyway? I am confused.
                    Because there are only two possible sides: the sane and the naive liberals.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                      You are still confused. I believe, and would encourage everyone - businessmen or not - to apply Christian principles to their entire lives. I have the constitutional right to influence my government. I do not have a constitutional right to force businesses to do what I think is right.
                      Doesn't your government force businesses to do various things?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                        Not everyone in America is Christian. So appealing to Christian values and notions of sin in regards to matrimonial practices is a non-sequitur.
                        And claiming that the "matrimonial practices" is what Christians object to, instead of governmental recognition and extension of benefits, is a non-sequitur. So, we want to go for 4 of a kind, or should we just muck the nonsense and discuss the actual topic of the thread?
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          And claiming that the "matrimonial practices" is what Christians object to, instead of governmental recognition and extension of benefits, is a non-sequitur.
                          As you wish:

                          Not everyone in America is Christian. So appealing to Christian values and notions of sin in regards to governmental recognition and extension of benefits is a non-sequitur.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            Not everyone in America is Christian or allows Christian principles to guide them. On the other hand those of us who are Christians have every right to try to encourage public morality.
                            So, with regards to avarice...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              So, with regards to avarice...
                              and who decides what is avarice?

                              If I want to maximize my salary and profits so I can help others, is that avarice? Do you have insight to a company owner's thoughts or what he does with his money?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                and who decides what is avarice?

                                If I want to maximize my salary and profits so I can help others, is that avarice? Do you have insight to a company owner's thoughts or what he does with his money?
                                Because there is no possible way to tell when someone is greedy, not even his many luxurious houses, cars, and other belongings. None, zilch, nada.

                                Comment

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