Income Inequality?

[Sparko]

If you say so, but if you ever say that you think Christian morality should affect how our society sees marriage-- or anything, for that matter, I'll call you a liar and hypocrite with that post as evidence.

eh?

I think Christians should try to influence society. But I recognize the fact that we don't control society.

and even your idea is completely full of holes. Consider two companies, ran exactly the same way. One has a secular owner, one a Christian. They both try to maximize profits and their own salaries. The secular owner uses his profits to buy booze, babes, and drugs. The Christian owner uses his profits to help educate children in Africa.

Now according to you, we should limit the profit a company owner makes. You seem to think it is up to you to decide how much is fair and how much is excessive. And what they should do with their profits. If you limit Owner's profits, then in the case of the Christian owner, you are actually harming poor children in Africa because he won't have as much to send them. So who are you to decide how they should run their business?

[Cow Poke]

If you say so, but if you ever say that you think Christian morality should affect how our society sees marriage-- or anything, for that matter, I'll call you a liar and hypocrite with that post as evidence.

Because that's CERTAINLY the charitable thing to do!

[Spartacus]

eh?

I think Christians should try to influence society. But I recognize the fact that we don't control society.

Christian morality has no less bearing on economic matters than anything else. The fact that you have wholeheartedly embraced an entirely secular view of the economy and refuse to consider the implications of Christian ethics is deeply troubling.

and even your idea is completely full of holes. Consider two companies, ran exactly the same way. One has a secular owner, one a Christian. They both try to maximize profits and their own salaries. The secular owner uses his profits to buy booze, babes, and drugs. The Christian owner uses his profits to help educate children in Africa.

Now according to you, we should limit the profit a company owner makes. You seem to think it is up to you to decide how much is fair and how much is excessive. And what they should do with their profits. If you limit Owner's profits, then in the case of the Christian owner, you are actually harming poor children in Africa because he won't have as much to send them. So who are you to decide how they should run their business?

I'm not talking about limiting profits, I'm talking about tipping the balance more in favor of laborers than the holders of capital: raise the salaries of the workers and encourage them to use that money to promote the education of underprivileged children-- including their own, if applicable. Give more people more opportunities to engage in charity as well as prudent investment in their own futures.

[Spartacus]

Because that's CERTAINLY the charitable thing to do!

Is it uncharitable to correct someone who is in error by his own standards, to say nothing of God's?

[Cow Poke]

Is it uncharitable to correct someone who is in error by his own standards, to say nothing of God's?

It is uncharitable to enjoy it so much, or to do it with such fervor. It is not charitable to call somebody names in order to correct them.




(CP is preaching to hisself, too)

[Spartacus]

It is uncharitable to enjoy it so much, or to do it with such fervor. It is not necessary to call somebody names in order to correct them.

When you've convinced Mr. James Patrick Holding of that, let me know.

[Cow Poke]

When you've convinced Mr. James Patrick Holding of that, let me know.

He's not my neighbor -- you are.

[Spartacus]

He's not my neighbor -- you are.

It seriously disturbs me that so many self-professed Christians seem so unwilling to consider how Christian virtues should affect the way we see and engage in economic behaviors: avarice, once believed to be a deadly sin, is now taken for granted and assumed to be good.

The pattern's not entirely new: the ancient preoccupation with honor, which is no small part of what led to the glorious ancient empires (individuals would compete to outdo each other in selflessness toward the state in order to be more highly regarded), would be denounced by Christians as pride. It doesn't matter if it seems to help the commonwealth in the short run if it destroys souls in the long run.

[Darth Executor]

eh?

I think Christians should try to influence society. But I recognize the fact that we don't control society.

Yes, because we gave it away, which was a stupid, evil thing to do and something we will have to answer for.

and even your idea is completely full of holes. Consider two companies, ran exactly the same way. One has a secular owner, one a Christian. They both try to maximize profits and their own salaries. The secular owner uses his profits to buy booze, babes, and drugs. The Christian owner uses his profits to help educate children in Africa.

Now according to you, we should limit the profit a company owner makes. You seem to think it is up to you to decide how much is fair and how much is excessive. And what they should do with their profits. If you limit Owner's profits, then in the case of the Christian owner, you are actually harming poor children in Africa because he won't have as much to send them. So who are you to decide how they should run their business?

This is a poor argument. In real life what actually happens is that devout Christians will cripple their productivity for the sake of charity so a disproportionate number of the rich people end up being various shades of liberal and/or atheist. They will then use their power to further erode Christian culture and turn it into the degenerate abomination we have today.

[Zymologist]

It seriously disturbs me that so many self-professed Christians seem so unwilling to consider how Christian virtues should affect the way we see and engage in economic behaviors: avarice, once believed to be a deadly sin, is now taken for granted and assumed to be good.

The pattern's not entirely new: the ancient preoccupation with honor, which is no small part of what led to the glorious ancient empires (individuals would compete to outdo each other in selflessness toward the state in order to be more highly regarded), would be denounced by Christians as pride. It doesn't matter if it seems to help the commonwealth in the short run if it destroys souls in the long run.

I'm interested. Could you describe a solution to this (as briefly as you like), economically?

[Cow Poke]

It seriously disturbs me that so many self-professed Christians seem so unwilling to consider how Christian virtues should affect the way we see and engage in economic behaviors: avarice, once believed to be a deadly sin, is now taken for granted and assumed to be good.

Sorry, Spart --- I'm not just TYPING about charity... I'm logging off to go DO some.

The pattern's not entirely new: the ancient preoccupation with honor, which is no small part of what led to the glorious ancient empires (individuals would compete to outdo each other in selflessness toward the state in order to be more highly regarded), would be denounced by Christians as pride. It doesn't matter if it seems to help the commonwealth in the short run if it destroys souls in the long run.

Which is why I'm teaching this 8 week / 16 class course called "Jobs for Life", and actually HELPING poor people find honorable work. (not just blustering about it on the internetz web)

[Sparko]

Christian morality has no less bearing on economic matters than anything else. The fact that you have wholeheartedly embraced an entirely secular view of the economy and refuse to consider the implications of Christian ethics is deeply troubling.



I'm not talking about limiting profits, I'm talking about tipping the balance more in favor of laborers than the holders of capital: raise the salaries of the workers and encourage them to use that money to promote the education of underprivileged children-- including their own, if applicable. Give more people more opportunities to engage in charity as well as prudent investment in their own futures.

Again, who are you to decide how someone spends their own money? If the worker's are so poor that they need extra money, then what makes you think that if they got the extra money they would be able to give any of it to charity? And why should the owner make less and be able to give less?

What if by maximizing profits, the owner could raise salaries, hire new workers and expand the business and give even more money to charity, AND give the worker's enough to give to charity too?

You seem to have decided that the owners are bad, profit is bad, and that the only good and responsible way to run things is to take away from the owners and give to the workers.

This is the real world, not a Robin Hood story.

You will have good owners and bad owners. Good workers and bad workers. You don't get to decide how other people run their business or spend their money. And you shouldn't try to use "Christianity" to justify your liberal ideas.

[Sparko]

Here you go Sparticus. Put your money where your mouth is. Help our own Kristyn (ke7) pay for her education. She is in danger of being kicked out of bible college because she can't afford it. Let's see some charity.

http://www.gofundme.com/fyb6eo

[Jedidiah]

Their purpose is to make as much money as possible, not to observe religious scruples like caring for the poor and sick or not paying for contraception.

Or that's where the reasoning takes us, anyway, which is why I wholeheartedly oppose it.

You are arguing against yourself here. Besides, where do you find that a little wedding chapel, particularly one picky about clients, is in to make "as much money as possible?"

[Jedidiah]

We could apply the same reasoning to changing marriage laws to allow same-sex marriage, but, last I checked, you didn't support that. What is it you actually believe about the role of religion in society?

You have apples and oranges here. Not everyone in America is Christian or allows Christian principles to guide them. On the other hand those of us who are Christians have every right to try to encourage public morality. Just because I am a Christian does not mean I can no longer vote or protest for what I believe. That is not just a right for atheists.