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I'm White And I'm Proud?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    This is slightly divergent from the OP, but I believe this is an essential point to understand. The terms "Black" and "White," in regard to race, don't simply refer to skin color. There's also a social aspect of it.

    Throughout American history, people with dark skin have frequently been denigrated by a white majority who tried to destroy them and portray blackness as something shameful and evil.
    It seems to me that if a white majority wanted to destroy them they would have easily done so.

    So when they speak of "black pride," they mean that they refuse to feel the shame that oppressors tried to cast upon them, that they'll instead view themselves with honor and esteem, knowing that to the contrary, it's not at all shameful or evil to be black. When they speak of black pride, they mean that they're grateful and content to be part of a racial group that kept persevering against oppression despite all the obstacles. Though some extremist groups may try to twist it into something different, that is the historical meaning of and reason for the term. Unless one is a relatively recent immigrant to America, to be black in this nation is not only to have dark skin, but also to be a member of that which was societally viewed as inferior, evil and powerless, the historic underdog.
    Judging by all the white liberals avoiding living anywhere near blacks I'd argue that the "was" is a bit premature. Everybody chants "racial equality" but when you look at people's actions it's pretty clear few of them actually believe it.

    That sort of pride isn't "Look at what other black people did hundreds and thousands of years ago!"
    If it was they wouldn't have much to show for it. One of the anti-racist speakers at one of my high school assemblies (my school was mostly black so we had a steady stream of ego massaging and race baiting from the white liberal staff) decided to just make some up (I later looked up whether a black man really invented the cell phone, and unsurprisingly, it wasn't true).

    but rather "I share a characteristic with many other people who have been horrendously denigrated and oppressed precisely because of that characteristic, but I will not let myself be shamed and thereby continually oppressed by this characteristic. I will instead view myself and my fellow people who share this characteristic with esteem and honor."

    Meanwhile, white people in America have never been an oppressed minority group;
    White people in America have never been one homogeneous faction. And while white liberals have never been an oppressed minority group, but most American whites are fed a steady stream of guilt tripping and humiliation. You probably don't notice this because people like you and whag get off on being humiliated.

    they were never counted as essentially only 3/5ths of a person or told that they're naturally inferior to other races and that their skin color is something shameful and evil.
    The 3/5th of a person sounds like legal mumbo jumbo but I've certainly been told the last two.

    Therefore, there is absolutely no reason for them to have "white pride."
    Sure there is, the constant barrage of humiliation and guilt tripping can only be reversed by punching back hard against the progressive establishment. Down with the man!

    An important distinction here is that there have been some people in America who had white skin and were legitimately mistreated, such as the Irish, but as crazy as it may sound, the Irish weren't considered "white" back then. By "white people" I don't simply mean "people who have light skin tones," but rather people who are considered to be the default of a nation, the "pure" setting, the majority that holds the power.
    No majority ever holds power. Other than that, you just summed up liberals in a nutshell.

    When speaking of race, "white" never simply means skin color, but also power. It's perfectly legitimate for descendants of oppressed groups who happen to have light skin tones to have Irish pride or German pride or Italian pride, but never "white" pride. To be Irish or German or Italian in America didn't always mean to hold power and be lumped into the default group, but being considered "white" has always meant that.
    I'm all for German pride myself. Sieg Heil my Aryian brother!

    As Zymologist pointed out earlier, there's no rational reason to be proud of one's race in the sense of having certain physical features or skin tones. After all, you didn't choose or "achieve" those features. You were simply born into them; it was essentially a genetic accident.
    The same should apply to persecution, no? Especially when the persecution doesn't exist anymore (quite the opposite).

    There's also no rational reason to be proud of one's race in the sense of boasting that people who aren't related to you and lived hundreds of years before you did achieved great things.
    Actually they are related to you, more than Africans or Chinese are. So in that sense it's a bit like saying there's no rational reason to be proud of your kid's (or some other family member) accomplishments.

    There's no inherent feature in Europeans that made them capable of achieving all those things.
    I agree, the feature also appears to be inherent in some Asian and Middle Eastern/Arab populations.

    And as I've explained, that's not what black people mean by "black pride."
    I'm glad we have white liberals to translate for us what black people really mean.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      This is a quote mine from a chapter of the book Ontogeny and Phylogeny on the notion of recapitulation (not evolution).

      Note also that the quote by Gould states that "biological arguments for racism" had increased not that racism itself had increased. Moreover, it is also important to note that he doesn't say it was actually a result of the theory.

      In fact Gould goes on to say that

      Source:

      But the data were worthless. We never have had, and still do not have, any unambiguous data on the innate mental capacities of different human groups--a meaningless notion anyway since environments cannot be standardized. If the chorus of racist arguments did not follow a constraint of data, it must have reflected social prejudice pure and simple--anything from an a priori belief in universal progress among apolitical but chauvinistic scientists to an explicit desire to construct a rationale for imperialism.

      © Copyright Original Source

      Gould would say that, since he engaged in fraud to suppress it.

      And if the racists had bothered to actually check what evolutionary theory proposed -- namely that all of humanity was one species descended from a common ancestor -- then they probably would have never tried using it but would have denounced evolution like all of the major white supremacy groups have done.


      Where does evolution say humans will magically retain the exact same attributes regardless of environmental pressure? How does being descended from a common ancestor guarantee you won't change any further? This isn't evolution. This isn't even creationism, it's hocus pocus.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        The 3/5th of a person sounds like legal mumbo jumbo but I've certainly been told the last two.
        You've never heard of the Three-Fifths Compromise?

        No majority ever holds power. Other than that, you just summed up liberals in a nutshell
        This sentence baffles me.

        The same should apply to persecution, no? Especially when the persecution doesn't exist anymore (quite the opposite).
        Members of certain minority groups still are more likely to face societal disadvantages compared to the majority.

        Actually they are related to you, more than Africans or Chinese are. So in that sense it's a bit like saying there's no rational reason to be proud of your kid's (or some other family member) accomplishments.
        Well, er...I'm not white. So no, they're not related to me. I am, in fact, descended from Chinese people.

        I'm glad we have white liberals to translate for us what black people really mean.
        What you mean to say is "I'm glad we have non-white moderates who ask black people what they mean and read what black authors have written about the issue so that they can then relay that information to us."
        Last edited by fm93; 10-16-2014, 11:43 PM.
        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by square_peg View Post
          You've never heard of the Three-Fifths Compromise?
          I have, hence the legal mumbo jumbo part.

          This sentence baffles me.
          Much seems to baffle you.

          Members of certain minority groups still are more likely to face societal disadvantages compared to the majority.
          Members of certain minority groups with well earned bad reputations you mean. Of course, the advantages they get still outweigh the disatvantages.

          Well, er...I'm not white. So no, they're not related to me. I am, in fact, descended from Chinese people.
          The you wasn't YOU in particular.

          What you mean to say is "I'm glad we have non-white moderates who ask black people what they mean and read what black authors have written about the issue so that they can then relay that information to us."
          Well now that you mention it I guess Chinese people are even better equipped to translate Blackanese for us.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            It is silly to be proud of something you had absolutely nothing to do with.
            So it would be silly to be proud of one's country's achievements made before one was born? One's family's accomplishments too?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Why? Is there a race that has done more in science, medicine, technology and creating a democratic form of government.
              I think it's debatable which culture is responsible for the most great advances, but even if, for the sake of argument, white people have done as you say, that doesn't mean that they have done so because of any inherent character in their race or culture. That's putting aside the fact that race is a social construct, but I assume you can imagine some other way to group people, so I'm sidestepping that issue.
              Last edited by Psychic Missile; 10-16-2014, 11:55 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                I think it's debatable which culture is responsible for the most great advances, but even if, for the sake of argument, white people have done as you say, that doesn't mean that they have done so because of any inherent character in their race or culture. That's putting aside the fact that race is a social construct, but I assume you can imagine some other way to group people, so I'm sidestepping that issue.
                I'm actually somewhat glad that he's openly come out as a racist. No need to spend time analyzing coded language or weighing racially based emphases. He flat-out stated that he believes the white race is the best and most advanced race in the world. That's pretty much as open-and-shut of a case of racism as you'll ever see. You might as well frame it and put it in a textbook.
                Last edited by fm93; 10-17-2014, 12:32 AM.
                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                  I'm actually somewhat glad that he's openly come out as a racist. No need to spend time analyzing coded language or weighing racially based emphases. He flat-out stated that he believes the white race is the best and most advanced race in the world. That's pretty much as open-and-shut of a case of racism as you'll ever see. You might as well frame it and put it in a textbook.
                  So now what follows from that conclusion?

                  You can ignore everything else he says about anything, because 'He's racist!' ??


                  He's wrong on his other positions as well, because he's wrong on this one?


                  When he argues (say) that black Americans are over-represented in the crime statistics, that argument can be ignored because 'He's racist!'?

                  If not those, then what?
                  ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                    that doesn't mean that they have done so because of any inherent character in their race or culture.
                    What else would it be*?


                    *just replace race with genes to be more accurate
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                      So now what follows from that conclusion?

                      You can ignore everything else he says about anything, because 'He's racist!' ??


                      He's wrong on his other positions as well, because he's wrong on this one?


                      When he argues (say) that black Americans are over-represented in the crime statistics, that argument can be ignored because 'He's racist!'?

                      If not those, then what?
                      No. I simply mean that I no longer have to spend time wondering if certain posts indicate a racist attitude, because he's already confirmed that he has one.
                      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                        No. I simply mean that I no longer have to spend time wondering if certain posts indicate a racist attitude, because he's already confirmed that he has one.
                        But the OP looks like an obvious trap set up to outline a double standard in the way liberals embrace identity pride when it comes to everyone who isn't white/male.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                          What else would it be*?


                          *just replace race with genes to be more accurate
                          Circumstance.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                            Circumstance.
                            What circumstance?
                            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                              What circumstance?
                              Natural resources, historical events, climate, disease, etc.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                                Natural resources
                                Can you be more specific? I don't see much of a relationship between resources and success.

                                historical events
                                Vague. What historical events?

                                climate, disease, etc.
                                How? I mean other than altering the genetics of the population.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                                Comment

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