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The pendulum swings back

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Misandry isn't sexism?
    Not necessarily so, no.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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    • #47
      Okay, that one is silly - and makes no sense at all.
      "It makes no sense at all" seems to be fast becoming the female equivalent of "I've lost the argument but I don't want to admit it." Suspicious attitude adjustments outside of the previous mean aren't necessarily legally actionable, but they are very much socially and often politically actionable, and ignoring them would qualify as rank incompetence in all sorts of fields that involve dealing with people.

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      • #48
        Part Two:
        A movement that once hollered proudly about women’s autonomy, insisting the so-called fairer sex was actually perfectly capable of hurling itself into the rough-and-tumble of public life, now cries about women’s vulnerability, claiming this sex is even fairer than we thought and needs protection from rude images and potty-mouthed men.
        Here in Australia, a mob of intolerant feminists chased the silly pick-up artist Julien Blanc out of the country and got Immigration Minister Scott Morrison to revoke his visa. Morrison said Blanc, who advises sad men on how to cosy up to the opposite sex, said things that were “derogatory to women” and had “values (that are) abhorred in this country”.

        Now you, like me, may think Blanc is a tosser, but think about the dangerous precedent being set here: the state has been empowered to say what kind of values it’s acceptable to hold in Australia. The state has been turned into the arbiter of what people may think and say, to such an extent that it potentially will now stop at the borders those who think and say the “wrong” things.
        Blanc’s plane had barely lifted off before insatiably censorious feminists were turning their ire against another moral deviant: Redfoo, singer with LMFAO and a judge on The X Factor in Australia, whose new song feminists find offensive. So what do they want? His head on a platter: they want him sacked from The X Factor on the basis that anyone who sings songs they don’t like has no place in the public realm.

        Remember when feminists were all about throwing open the worlds of work and politics to women? Now they’re about shutting down culture they find annoying, policing the cultural realm in search of those who say risque or off-colour things and demanding their instant expulsion. These matriarchal McCarthyites won’t be happy until public life reflects their prejudices alone.

        In Britain, feminists are campaigning for Blanc to be banned from entering the country later this month. At the time of writing 70,000 people have signed a petition demanding he be stopped at the border. So feminists want officialdom to erect a moral force field around Britain, to keep out not just criminals or terrorists but people whose views we find *offensive. Like super-censors they want Britain kept morally pure, unpolluted by those who say shocking things. Such feminism is just authoritarianism in drag.
        At the end of October, at universities across the US, feminist students came out in solidarity with a Columbia student who wanted a male student who she claimed raped her expelled from university — even though a disciplinary hearing found him not guilty and the police said there was no case.

        In a creepy echo of Stalin’s favoured method of dealing with deviants, feminists want him thrown out of university on the basis of one woman’s accusations. This is genuinely shocking.
        When conservative Christian women demanded the censure of rude art and entertainment in the 1970s and 80s, they were roundly mocked by radicals. Now the same radicals, most notably feminists, are engaged in the exact same policing of morality and destruction of culture that offends their sensibilities. Other feminists in Britain are agitating for bans on “lads mags” and the removal of Page 3 girls from The Sun...
        What is most tragic is the argument put forward by feminists to justify their new intolerance: they say it’s all about protecting women from harmful images and ideas, from “raunch culture” or “rape culture”.

        The campaigners against Page 3 sum it up: sexual images can have “a negative impact on the self-esteem of women and girls”, they say. In short, women are vulnerable, easily damaged by culture and ideology. Such paternalism towards women is surely the opposite of feminism. It takes us back to the Victorian view of women as wallflowers who have to be chaperoned through life lest they encounter a gruff man or a foul idea.

        With its promotion of panic about sex, prudish censorship and urge to punish moral deviancy, feminism now comes across as a pastiche of the Victorian outlook that the early feminists challenged.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
          "It makes no sense at all" seems to be fast becoming the female equivalent of "I've lost the argument but I don't want to admit it." Suspicious attitude adjustments outside of the previous mean aren't necessarily legally actionable, but they are very much socially and often politically actionable, and ignoring them would qualify as rank incompetence in all sorts of fields that involve dealing with people.
          No, it means I really can't make heads or tails out of that silly paragraph. Quit being so danged defensive and just tell me what it was supposed to mean.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            Suppose, for the sake of argument, that certain feminists really are going too far and doing something wrong here. Why do you see the need to frame this as an indictment of feminism as a whole? As evidenced byy this thread, you apparently believe the church should be viewed more for the good that it's done than for the many bad things done in its name, so why not extend the same courtesy to feminism?
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
              Suppose, for the sake of argument, that certain feminists really are going too far and doing something wrong here. Why do you see the need to frame this as an indictment of feminism as a whole? As evidenced byy this thread, you apparently believe the church should be viewed more for the good that it's done than for the many bad things done in its name, so why not extend the same courtesy to feminism?
              Feminism is a weird topic. I mean, feminists will say something like, "Feminism is just supporting equality." Ok, great. Yay for equality.

              But then somebody will point to an example of the (clearly, IMO) sexist and bigoted feminists out there, and the original feminist will either say, "Well I'm not like that," or, "They're not true feminists."

              So then somebody like me, who is on board with equality, wonders what exactly feminism actually is. And it appears that feminism then becomes an unhelpfully broad term: basically, anybody who's not a caveman that grunts about finding a woman for himself and drags her into his cave by her hair is a feminist. Which doesn't seem all that useful of a label to me.

              It's like saying, "I'm a feminist because I treat women like people!" Well...ok. I guess just about all of us are feminists, then. I don't see how that's useful.
              Last edited by Zymologist; 11-18-2014, 04:55 PM.
              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                Suppose, for the sake of argument, that certain feminists really are going too far and doing something wrong here. Why do you see the need to frame this as an indictment of feminism as a whole? As evidenced byy this thread, you apparently believe the church should be viewed more for the good that it's done than for the many bad things done in its name, so why not extend the same courtesy to feminism?
                Do you know that it was a satire of another thread?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                  Feminism is a weird topic. I mean, feminists will say something like, "Feminism is just supporting equality." Ok, great. Yay for equality.
                  Even if we're merely talking about "equality", it's such an vague and amorphous buzzphrase that in practice is selectively limited.

                  Have you read of the classification of feminism into three Waves?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                    Have you read of the classification of feminism into three Waves?
                    Yeah. The third/current wave being virtually meaningless and obsolete at the moment of conception. At least the First Wave was productive; the Second Wave just kind of leeched off of the First Wave's effectiveness.
                    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - Richard Dawkins

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                    • #55
                      Any form of female empowerment is by definition is evil and stupid. Women are intermediate by nature, giving them any unchallenged power destroys the innocence of children and the inspiration of fathers, husbands, and lovers. The wisest among them always reject, minimize, or pass it along as soon as it comes their way.

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                      • #56
                        Those interested might want to look up a video by googling "Little Girls Swear For A Cause". It's too profanity-filled to be linked here.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                          Even if we're merely talking about "equality", it's such an vague and amorphous buzzphrase that in practice is selectively limited.

                          Have you read of the classification of feminism into three Waves?
                          I've heard of it, vaguely, but haven't read anything on it.
                          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                            Feminism is a weird topic. I mean, feminists will say something like, "Feminism is just supporting equality." Ok, great. Yay for equality.

                            But then somebody will point to an example of the (clearly, IMO) sexist and bigoted feminists out there, and the original feminist will either say, "Well I'm not like that," or, "They're not true feminists."

                            So then somebody like me, who is on board with equality, wonders what exactly feminism actually is. And it appears that feminism then becomes an unhelpfully broad term: basically, anybody who's not a caveman that grunts about finding a woman for himself and drags her into his cave by her hair is a feminist. Which doesn't seem all that useful of a label to me.

                            It's like saying, "I'm a feminist because I treat women like people!" Well...ok. I guess just about all of us are feminists, then. I don't see how that's useful.
                            I'll answer this by playing the "Replace one term with another" game.

                            Christianity is a weird topic. I mean, Christians will say something like, "Christianity is just loving others as yourself and worshiping a perfectly good God of love." Ok, great. Yay for love.

                            But then somebody will point to an example of the (clearly, IMO) hateful and bigoted Christians out there, and the original Christian will either say, "Well I'm not like that," or, "They're not true Christians."

                            So then somebody like me, who is on board with love, wonders what exactly Christianity actually is. And it appears that Christianity then becomes an unhelpfully broad term: basically, anybody who's not a caveman that grunts about "God hates fags" and bashing people over the head with a Bible is a Christian. Which doesn't seem all that useful of a label to me.

                            It's like saying, "I'm a Christian because I treat people like people!" Well...ok. I guess just about all of us are Christians, then. I don't see how that's useful.


                            Feminism, like "Christian," is a simple term with a specific meaning. If you truly believe it, then you're a feminist, just like if you truly believe in what Christianity entails, you're a Christian. The fact that some people who claim to be Christians do crazy things in no way invalidates Christianity as a whole.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                              I'll answer this by playing the "Replace one term with another" game.

                              Christianity is a weird topic. I mean, Christians will say something like, "Christianity is just loving others as yourself and worshiping a perfectly good God of love." Ok, great. Yay for love.

                              But then somebody will point to an example of the (clearly, IMO) hateful and bigoted Christians out there, and the original Christian will either say, "Well I'm not like that," or, "They're not true Christians."

                              So then somebody like me, who is on board with love, wonders what exactly Christianity actually is. And it appears that Christianity then becomes an unhelpfully broad term: basically, anybody who's not a caveman that grunts about "God hates fags" and bashing people over the head with a Bible is a Christian. Which doesn't seem all that useful of a label to me.

                              It's like saying, "I'm a Christian because I treat people like people!" Well...ok. I guess just about all of us are Christians, then. I don't see how that's useful.


                              Feminism, like "Christian," is a simple term with a specific meaning. If you truly believe it, then you're a feminist, just like if you truly believe in what Christianity entails, you're a Christian. The fact that some people who claim to be Christians do crazy things in no way invalidates Christianity as a whole.
                              So what is feminism, and how do you know if someone truly believes it?
                              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                                So what is feminism, and how do you know if someone truly believes it?
                                It's simply the belief that women are people and deserve equality with men. If someone truly believes this, then he/she will desire to correct perceived inequality between men and women. More significantly, he/she will actually take time to listen to what women say about such things, rather than dismissing them outright. That's basically it. Being a feminist doesn't force you to take certain political sides. Many outspoken women who identify as feminist proudly support abortion. I, too, consider myself a feminist, but I'm generally opposed to abortion except in drastic cases.
                                Last edited by fm93; 11-19-2014, 02:23 PM.
                                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                                Comment

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