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And The Brown Shirts March On....

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  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I doubt a business would end up staying in business long if it started practicing segregation and not because the government says its illegal, but because so many people would be against it and would likely take their business elsewhere. Besides, from a business stand point, segregation makes very little sense to begin with.
    Good grief! Here in Alabama, such segregation was practiced for nearly a century after the slaves were freed, with no economic repercussions. Indeed, if they LET the dirty ni**ers in, THAT would have hurt their business, and they knew it. Now and then, using "pixie economics", some places DID try integration. Their customers vanished and they went broke.

    The theory sounds good. The practice demonstrated exactly the opposite. When sense is measured in dollars, segregation is the ONLY thing that makes sense. And this is true of the anti-gay folks as well - there are MANY MANY MANY more Christian bigots then there are gays, so who are you going to pander to if you want a profitable business?

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    • If homosexuals did not make such a point of self identifying there would be no way anyone would be able to segregate them. Stop shoving in peoples faces and they will not react negatively.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by phank View Post
        Good grief! Here in Alabama, such segregation was practiced for nearly a century after the slaves were freed, with no economic repercussions. Indeed, if they LET the dirty ni**ers in, THAT would have hurt their business, and they knew it. Now and then, using "pixie economics", some places DID try integration. Their customers vanished and they went broke.
        And last I checked, we are living in the year 2014 and not in the year 1964. I guess you must live in a pretty sad little corner of the world, since most of the places I've lived have had blacks and whites working among others for over 30 years now. Funny how the team I supervise in the AF has blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians working together and we somehow still manage to get the mission done and than some. Of course, I guess you could try just forcing people to accept or else... nothing ever goes wrong there. Eh?

        The theory sounds good. The practice demonstrated exactly the opposite. When sense is measured in dollars, segregation is the ONLY thing that makes sense. And this is true of the anti-gay folks as well - there are MANY MANY MANY more Christian bigots then there are gays, so who are you going to pander to if you want a profitable business?
        I wasn't aware that most of the country was like Alabama or that most people would even be aware of who you hire or don't; if you don't have a business that works directly with the public. You must live in a pretty sad place if that is how things work where you lived. As I mentioned above, somehow it seems the minorities I've worked with manage to get their job done and I've even worked with gay men and women who still seem to get their work done. Who would I pander to? Well, sounds like I wouldn't have a business where you live, for starters.
        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-21-2014, 07:08 PM.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by phank View Post
          Good grief! Here in Alabama, such segregation was practiced for nearly a century after the slaves were freed, with no economic repercussions. Indeed, if they LET the dirty ni**ers in, THAT would have hurt their business, and they knew it. Now and then, using "pixie economics", some places DID try integration. Their customers vanished and they went broke.

          The theory sounds good. The practice demonstrated exactly the opposite. When sense is measured in dollars, segregation is the ONLY thing that makes sense. And this is true of the anti-gay folks as well - there are MANY MANY MANY more Christian bigots then there are gays, so who are you going to pander to if you want a profitable business?
          Well I'm glad forced integration worked out and the United States has the least aggravated racial relations in the Americas.... oh wait.

          Slavery happened in most American (including South) countries but no contry has nearly as much animosity left. It turns out that killing half a million people in a civil war fought for the freedom to subjugate others to your rule then forcefully making people get along and humiliating them over and over and over (like the North did after the Civil war and is still doing) kinda sours racial relations.

          Incompetence dwarfed only by arrogance pretty much sums up liberalism.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
            If homosexuals did not make such a point of self identifying there would be no way anyone would be able to segregate them. Stop shoving in peoples faces and they will not react negatively.


            I've worked with those who identify as gay and haven't seen any evidence they are any less capable of doing the job as others are. When it comes to hiring somebody, if it was my decision, it would be based on merits and nothing else. Skin color, religion, and sexual orientation are totally irrelevant. Of course, when you shove acceptance down people's throats and force them to hire based on these things; I suppose you shouldn't be surprised when you end up with a divided society that can't solve its problems.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              And last I checked, we are living in the year 2014 and not in the year 1964. I guess you must live in a pretty sad little corner of the world, since most of the places I've lived have had blacks and whites working among others for over 30 years now. Funny how the team I supervise in the AF has blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians working together and we somehow still manage to get the mission done and than some. Of course, I guess you could try just forcing people to accept or else... nothing ever goes wrong there. Eh?
              Why, you are entirely correct. Once the LAW was passed outlawing such practices, why, people followed the law. They didn't bow to economics, they bowed to the State.

              I wasn't aware that most of the country was like Alabama or that most people would even be aware of who you hire or don't; if you don't have a business that works directly with the public. You must live in a pretty sad place if that is how things work where you lived. As I mentioned above, somehow it seems the minorities I've worked with manage to get their job done and I've even worked with gay men and women who still seem to get their work done. Who would I pander to? Well, sounds like I wouldn't have a business where you live, for starters.
              All you are saying is that when an economically beneficial practice is made illegal, then the most economical practice under the law gets followed. And eventually, sure enough, it turns out that in the new legal environment, the new practicies work just fine. The LAW changed the environment.

              And so it always goes. The law, against much dire expections like yours, gets passed. People HAVE to obey it, kicking and screaming all the way. And it turns out that these are just people, there was no reason for all the intial rabid opposition. Integration works even better than segreation (which worked well).

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                Well I'm glad forced integration worked out and the United States has the least aggravated racial relations in the Americas.... oh wait.

                Slavery happened in most American (including South) countries but no contry has nearly as much animosity left. It turns out that killing half a million people in a civil war fought for the freedom to subjugate others to your rule then forcefully making people get along and humiliating them over and over and over (like the North did after the Civil war and is still doing) kinda sours racial relations.

                Incompetence dwarfed only by arrogance pretty much sums up liberalism.
                I admit I can't make much sense of this. I agree integration was forced onto some, and that some of those are STILL upset about it. I'm not sure that slavery could have been ended with less leftover animosity, but maybe it could have. I have to laugh at your claim that "liberalism" is the source of the problems the conservatives are still causing.

                Personally, I wonder what would have happened if the northern states had simply shrugged their shoulders and said "OK, you're your own country. Good luck." I think there would have been a massive "illegal alien" condition, as the slaves escaped to the north. Would the north have accepted them? What do you think?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by phank View Post
                  I admit I can't make much sense of this. I agree integration was forced onto some, and that some of those are STILL upset about it. I'm not sure that slavery could have been ended with less leftover animosity, but maybe it could have. I have to laugh at your claim that "liberalism" is the source of the problems the conservatives are still causing.

                  Personally, I wonder what would have happened if the northern states had simply shrugged their shoulders and said "OK, you're your own country. Good luck." I think there would have been a massive "illegal alien" condition, as the slaves escaped to the north. Would the north have accepted them? What do you think?
                  What problems are those?
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by phank View Post
                    Why, you are entirely correct. Once the LAW was passed outlawing such practices, why, people followed the law. They didn't bow to economics, they bowed to the State.
                    And how well is that forced tolerance thing working out?

                    All you are saying is that when an economically beneficial practice is made illegal, then the most economical practice under the law gets followed. And eventually, sure enough, it turns out that in the new legal environment, the new practicies work just fine. The LAW changed the environment.
                    A bald assertion doesn't make your argument true. If you really are interested in getting people to get along and actually trying to, forced tolerance and integration will not make it work. At best, you might create some token positions to make it seem as though the idea is working, but I doubt treating people as though they are tokens is the best way to create equality.

                    And so it always goes. The law, against much dire expections like yours, gets passed. People HAVE to obey it, kicking and screaming all the way. And it turns out that these are just people, there was no reason for all the intial rabid opposition. Integration works even better than segreation (which worked well).
                    Segregation is actually quite an illogical system. It takes far more money to build black and white bathrooms, schools, water fountains, etc than it does just to create an integrated system to start with. It's a wonder segregation lasted as long as it did without falling apart. Of course, just like slavery before it (which was also a system, which lived way past its usefulness too), pulling people along, kicking and screaming, into the future isn't the best way to create or sustain a society phank.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by phank View Post
                      I admit I can't make much sense of this. I agree integration was forced onto some, and that some of those are STILL upset about it. I'm not sure that slavery could have been ended with less leftover animosity, but maybe it could have. I have to laugh at your claim that "liberalism" is the source of the problems the conservatives are still causing.
                      Hummm, I would think that telling people they are still victims of a system that ended over a century ago would be a far bigger source of problems than anything you claim conservatives cause.

                      Personally, I wonder what would have happened if the northern states had simply shrugged their shoulders and said "OK, you're your own country. Good luck." I think there would have been a massive "illegal alien" condition, as the slaves escaped to the north. Would the north have accepted them? What do you think?
                      Idle speculation isn't an argument phank.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by phank View Post
                        I admit I can't make much sense of this. I agree integration was forced onto some, and that some of those are STILL upset about it.
                        Forcefully locking animals who hate each other together tends to do that, yes. Also, forced integration wasn't the only thing you did. Let's not forget the destruction caused by the Civil War and the subsequent placing of corrupt thieving governors to rule over the South afterwards.

                        I'm not sure that slavery could have been ended with less leftover animosity,
                        Why aren't you sure? It happened in many other places, like Brazil. Northern industrialists and abolitionist fanatics wanted to end it regardless of the cost (both human and material), which was both stupid and evil. It also left long term problems other former slave owning countries don't have to deal with. This type of fanaticism is probably why the puritans were persecuted out of Europe. Unfortunately neither they nor their progeny seems to have learned their lessons which is why this won't end until the Northeast and California are burned to the ground and its inhabitants scattered to the four winds. I'm hoping for a French Revolution kinda thing myself where the daughters of liberal billionaires are forced to marry the children of buck toothed rednecks.

                        I have to laugh at your claim that "liberalism" is the source of the problems the conservatives are still causing.
                        Which problems are conservatives causing? Which conservatives had Trayvon Martin punch a guy's head into asphalt "MMA style" then started a firestorm shouting "racist" (and assaulting/killing people over it) when he predictably got shot? Oh yeah, that was:

                        a) Black people (in general, I know there were holdouts but for the most part black opinion was pretty solid on the "we should be able to beat white people to death without being shot" side)
                        b) White liberals (who don't have to deal with people like Trayvon because they gentrify them out of their neighbourhoods or have cops pick them up on Marijuana charges and they never leave prison).

                        There are problems all around and no party isn't, consciously or subconsciously, causing them. That's because different people just don't get along with each other. It's why ethnic strife happens in multicultural countries and why forced integration is so evil. It's also why the United States delegated so much power to the states: it's because even the white people within its borders were of vastly different character, culture and disposition. Liberals crapped all over this wise agreement with the Civil War and it hasn't ended since.

                        Personally, I wonder what would have happened if the northern states had simply shrugged their shoulders and said "OK, you're your own country. Good luck." I think there would have been a massive "illegal alien" condition, as the slaves escaped to the north. Would the north have accepted them? What do you think?
                        The North went to war in large part because they wanted dirt cheap black labour (the war wasn't nearly as popular with Northern commoners as it was with the industrialists) so of course they would have accepted them.
                        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                          Incompetence dwarfed only by arrogance pretty much sums up liberalism.
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                            What problems are those?
                            The ones the liberals are actually causing, that he will blame on conservatives.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by OU812 View Post
                              And despite Ashoka's best efforts, Buddhism ultimately didn't flourish in the Indian subcontinent (not counting Sri Lanka of course)...so much for royal decrees supposedly determining the religious character of a land/territory (Arian Christian Roman Emperors anyone?).
                              Religion “flourishes” if enforced with penalties for non-compliance. Is this what you’re advocating? What if it’s not your religion – or your version of your religion – being enforced?

                              Then there's that Roman tradition of "religious tolerance", the fruit of which was

                              1. slavery

                              2. gladiator 'sport'
                              There are a considerable number of "fruits" deriving from the Roman Empire and we in the west benefit from many of them. And you forget that "slavery" was a tradition of the Christian west too - until relatively recently. As for gladiatorial sports, the extraordinarily high percentage of NFL players that suffer chronic traumatic encephalopathy makes it akin to the Roman arena in many ways.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...encephalopathy
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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