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illegal immigration

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  • #46
    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    I don't really have a strong opinion either way on this issue. I do think that people who were unlawfully brought here as children and grew up here ought to be granted some sort of amnesty, because for all intents and purposes this is their homeland. This is the only country they've ever truly known. It's not fair to deport them to a country that they don't truly belong to.
    That is a fair consideration, depending on age and length of stay in the country, and if they are still dependant on their parents. If they are still dependant on their parents, then I don't have a problem sending them back to their original country.

    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    That said, although I generally stay out of the immigration debate, I will add that I'm often frustrated by the tone of the anti-immigration side.
    First problem, I am NOT anti-immigration. I am an immigrant to my adopted country myself. I don't think you should be equating illegal immigrants with legal immigrants and terming it all "anti-immigration"
    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    They frequently seem to lack any compassion whatsoever.
    Every year hundreds of people from Indonesia board boats to try make it to Australia, knowing that once they arrive there they will be put in an internment camp and returned back to Indonesia. (called the boat people). It's their choice to do it, they should face the consequences of their actions.
    Australia regularly takes in large number of refugees and has a program for legally applying for immigration (which is sometimes a lot cheaper than what those bringing the boat people in are charging)
    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    The way they phrase and portray things, you'd think the immigrants were devious robbers who organized a mass conspiracy to infiltrate pure, wonderful America and destroy it from the inside, rather than flesh-and-blood human beings like you and I who wanted to escape political oppression and terrible living conditions.
    But if someone is an illegal immigrant then they are breaking the law, they are not being vetted properly to make sure they are going to be a net benefit to your country. You already have more than enough low lifes and deadbeats to not need more (not saying all illegal immigrants are, but you can bet a fair share of them are and the legal immigration methods root those out). And given the current economic climate they could well be taking jobs from US citizens that US citizens need (again a country's first responsibility has to be to their own citizens)
    As for escaping political oppression, last I checked your southern neighbour, while having it's problems, had a democratically elected government. What more, most countries (including your own) have a legal system for asylum seekers and refugees to immigrate.
    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
    I cringe when others refer to them via demeaning terms like "illegals" and view them more as vectors of disease than as fellow people.
    I wouldn't view them as a "disease".
    As for the term "illegals" how would you differentiate between normal legal immigrants and those who are illegal immigrants?
    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
    -Ben Witherington III

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    • #47
      Nitpick: You cannot technically grant amnesty to the children that were brought here as minors beneath the age of consent. They are here illegally - just as the unknowing buyer of stolen goods is in illegal possession - but not criminally. There's no reason to grant amnesty to someone who can't be charged with a crime.

      That said, you cannot allow the children to become an attractive nuisance (it's a legal term, not a dig) - if we grant residency to such children it must be with the deportation of the responsible adult(s). It's the only way to prevent people from bringing their kids in hopes of getting grandfathered in. I would grant that we let the child in question then decide without penalty if they wish to stay or to accompany the other person to the foreign country - which isn't a great solution but is about as fair as can be arranged.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        As for the term "illegals" how would you differentiate between normal legal immigrants and those who are illegal immigrants?
        I am fairly confident that peggie calls them "undocumented residents" or some such politically correct term.

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        • #49
          No, he probably just calls them 'potential Democrat voters'.



          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Raphael View Post
            But if someone is an illegal immigrant then they are breaking the law, they are not being vetted properly to make sure they are going to be a net benefit to your country. You already have more than enough low lifes and deadbeats to not need more (not saying all illegal immigrants are, but you can bet a fair share of them are and the legal immigration methods root those out). And given the current economic climate they could well be taking jobs from US citizens that US citizens need (again a country's first responsibility has to be to their own citizens)
            I'm not disagreeing with you. But one can argue for those things while referring to and treating immigrants with dignity and respect.

            I wouldn't view them as a "disease".
            Seer does.

            As for the term "illegals" how would you differentiate between normal legal immigrants and those who are illegal immigrants?
            "Legal immigrants" and "illegal immigrants" would suffice. That ought to be obvious. Not something demeaning like "illegals."
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I am fairly confident that peggie calls them "undocumented residents" or some such politically correct term.
              You seem to think that term is part of a foreign language rather than an effort to express compassion, decency and grammatical coherence.
              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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              • #52
                Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                You seem to think that term is part of a foreign language rather than an effort to express compassion, decency and grammatical coherence.
                It's a politically correct double-speak nonsense term.

                But then you are a neurologically disadvantaged individual who is blissfully unaware of your own mental deficits.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  It's a politically correct double-speak nonsense term.
                  So you do think of it as a foreign language that's unknowable to you and won't bother making an effort to understand why people use that term rather than "illegals." As I suspected.

                  But then you are a neurologically disadvantaged individual who is blissfully unaware of your own mental deficits.
                  I've never been nasty to you like this, Sparko. And I'm wondering whether your behavior was always as thus or if it's a recent development, because I don't remember you acting this way on the old site. But whatever. Do as you will. Keep responding with juvenile insults instead of attempting to understand. I don't care anymore.
                  Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                  I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                  • #54
                    Merely dropping the noun doesn't make the term derogatory. Insisting on including the noun when a person clearly is not expressing contempt is what makes you appear disingenuous.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                      So you do think of it as a foreign language that's unknowable to you and won't bother making an effort to understand why people use that term rather than "illegals." As I suspected.


                      I've never been nasty to you like this, Sparko. And I'm wondering whether your behavior was always as thus or if it's a recent development, because I don't remember you acting this way on the old site. But whatever. Do as you will. Keep responding with juvenile insults instead of attempting to understand. I don't care anymore.
                      Were you on the old site? I don't remember....
                      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Merely dropping the noun doesn't make the term derogatory. Insisting on including the noun when a person clearly is not expressing contempt is what makes you appear disingenuous.
                        I'm aware that not every instance of such usage expresses contempt, but I have seen many instances that did, and hence I tend to instinctively cringe when I see that term.
                        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                          So you do think of it as a foreign language that's unknowable to you and won't bother making an effort to understand why people use that term rather than "illegals." As I suspected.


                          I've never been nasty to you like this, Sparko. And I'm wondering whether your behavior was always as thus or if it's a recent development, because I don't remember you acting this way on the old site. But whatever. Do as you will. Keep responding with juvenile insults instead of attempting to understand. I don't care anymore.
                          Being nasty to you? I was being politically correct as an effort to express compassion, decency and grammatical coherence instead of just calling you a moron. Which would have been a nasty term to call you.

                          Just making a point which you seem to have gotten. Couching something in vague, politically correct, "nice" terms doesn't fool anyone, does it?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Being nasty to you? I was being politically correct as an effort to express compassion, decency and grammatical coherence instead of just calling you a moron. Which would have been a nasty term to call you.

                            Just making a point which you seem to have gotten. Couching something in vague, politically correct, "nice" terms doesn't fool anyone, does it?
                            Except that you were clearly intending to throw insults using different terminology, whereas the people who object to terms like "illegals" do so precisely because they DON'T want to offend or insult anyone. There is an entire galaxy of difference here.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                              I'm aware that not every instance of such usage expresses contempt, but I have seen many instances that did, and hence I tend to instinctively cringe when I see that term.
                              But that is your failing, not his.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                                Except that you were clearly intending to throw insults using different terminology, whereas the people who object to terms like "illegals" do so precisely because they DON'T want to offend or insult anyone. There is an entire galaxy of difference here.
                                1. How is is insulting to call an illegal immigrant an illegal immigrant? That is what they are. Are they here legally or not? Heck, even calling them "immigrant" is a politically correct term. They didn't immigrate at all. They are illegal aliens, or illegal foreign nationals.
                                2. Calling them "undocumented" is just a vaguer way of saying the same thing and does not fool anyone.

                                You are intellectually challenged, aren't you?

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