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illegal immigration

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  • illegal immigration

    I am wanting input from those Americans who have a softer approach to illegal immigration.

    Now I am an immigrant to my country. I came here legally on a work visa (which included a whole bunch of medicals for me and my family + police background checks etc.). Applied and got a Permanent Residency visa (which included more medicals and background checks). And most recently applied for and received my New Zealand Citizenship (more background checks, but no medicals).

    This was a long process that took me a fair amount of time just to get the work visa (before I could apply for the work visa I had to get a formal offer of paid employment with an annual salary of at least NZ$55k/pa .... do you have any idea how long that takes when you're pretty much living the other side of the world?) and for all of it there was a whole bunch of paper work and costs (I had to get unabridged birth certificates, unabridged marriage certificate, police clearances, pay for the medicals, pay for the applications etc).

    All this was to prove that I would be of overall benefit to NZ society and would not be a net drain on their resources.

    As an immigrant myself, I have no problem with immigration.

    Now I know in America there is a fair amount of controversy on this issue, but I have to ask, for those who think this, why do you think that those who immigrate illegally should be given amnesty/free pass etc.?
    "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
    -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
    -Ben Witherington III

  • #2
    I know more about effects of that illegal status on the people than the effects of the people on the overall system: if we take for granted that getting rid of them all is any combination of logistically, legally, and morally impossible, then the most reasonable step would be to grant them some sort of legal status. The fear of deportation means these people are afraid to contact the police or seek medical treatment, which makes both crime and disease more prevalent. Furthermore, the inability to get drivers' licenses when so many jobs require cars means that there are more unlicensed-- and uninsured-- drivers on the road. If these costs of keeping them illegal exceed what we would save by granting them legal status, some sort of legalization would seem to be worth consideration.
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      I know more about effects of that illegal status on the people than the effects of the people on the overall system: if we take for granted that getting rid of them all is any combination of logistically, legally, and morally impossible, then the most reasonable step would be to grant them some sort of legal status. The fear of deportation means these people are afraid to contact the police or seek medical treatment, which makes both crime and disease more prevalent. Furthermore, the inability to get drivers' licenses when so many jobs require cars means that there are more unlicensed-- and uninsured-- drivers on the road. If these costs of keeping them illegal exceed what we would save by granting them legal status, some sort of legalization would seem to be worth consideration.
      Isn't that a bit like saying since criminals will rob banks, we should have a fund that we donate to to give criminals free money at banks, since robbing banks causes damage to banks and could cost the lives of people in them?

      Comment


      • #4
        We've got 12 million bank robbers in the country?

        I'm going to need a bigger mattress.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
          I am wanting input from those Americans who have a softer approach to illegal immigration.
          Softer than what?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
            Softer than what?
            Your mattress.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Raphael View Post
              I am wanting input from those Americans who have a softer approach to illegal immigration.

              Now I am an immigrant to my country. I came here legally on a work visa (which included a whole bunch of medicals for me and my family + police background checks etc.). Applied and got a Permanent Residency visa (which included more medicals and background checks). And most recently applied for and received my New Zealand Citizenship (more background checks, but no medicals).

              This was a long process that took me a fair amount of time just to get the work visa (before I could apply for the work visa I had to get a formal offer of paid employment with an annual salary of at least NZ$55k/pa .... do you have any idea how long that takes when you're pretty much living the other side of the world?) and for all of it there was a whole bunch of paper work and costs (I had to get unabridged birth certificates, unabridged marriage certificate, police clearances, pay for the medicals, pay for the applications etc).

              All this was to prove that I would be of overall benefit to NZ society and would not be a net drain on their resources.

              As an immigrant myself, I have no problem with immigration.

              Now I know in America there is a fair amount of controversy on this issue, but I have to ask, for those who think this, why do you think that those who immigrate illegally should be given amnesty/free pass etc.?
              I like the process you went through, though it could probably be streamlined somewhat -- that makes MUCH more sense than what we have.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                I am wanting input from those Americans who have a softer approach to illegal immigration.

                Now I am an immigrant to my country. I came here legally on a work visa (which included a whole bunch of medicals for me and my family + police background checks etc.). Applied and got a Permanent Residency visa (which included more medicals and background checks). And most recently applied for and received my New Zealand Citizenship (more background checks, but no medicals).

                This was a long process that took me a fair amount of time just to get the work visa (before I could apply for the work visa I had to get a formal offer of paid employment with an annual salary of at least NZ$55k/pa .... do you have any idea how long that takes when you're pretty much living the other side of the world?) and for all of it there was a whole bunch of paper work and costs (I had to get unabridged birth certificates, unabridged marriage certificate, police clearances, pay for the medicals, pay for the applications etc).

                All this was to prove that I would be of overall benefit to NZ society and would not be a net drain on their resources.

                As an immigrant myself, I have no problem with immigration.

                Now I know in America there is a fair amount of controversy on this issue, but I have to ask, for those who think this, why do you think that those who immigrate illegally should be given amnesty/free pass etc.?

                Congratulations on getting citizenship, fellow countryman.
                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                  I know more about effects of that illegal status on the people than the effects of the people on the overall system: if we take for granted that getting rid of them all is any combination of logistically, legally, and morally impossible, then the most reasonable step would be to grant them some sort of legal status. The fear of deportation means these people are afraid to contact the police or seek medical treatment, which makes both crime and disease more prevalent. Furthermore, the inability to get drivers' licenses when so many jobs require cars means that there are more unlicensed-- and uninsured-- drivers on the road. If these costs of keeping them illegal exceed what we would save by granting them legal status, some sort of legalization would seem to be worth consideration.
                  *emphasis mine

                  I'm gonna remember this for the next time we debate this topic.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                    Congratulations on getting citizenship, fellow countryman.
                    Sounds like you nuts actually think citizenship is a valuable commodity!
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Sounds like you nuts actually think citizenship is a valuable commodity!

                      Well, not if it's in your country, obviously.
                      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                        Well, not if it's in your country, obviously.
                        Yeah, I know.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                          Your mattress.
                          Ah, the disadvantages of cold, hard cash.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Isn't that a bit like saying since criminals will rob banks, we should have a fund that we donate to to give criminals free money at banks, since robbing banks causes damage to banks and could cost the lives of people in them?
                            Sounds like a better idea than issuing poor people mortgages they won't ever be able to pay off.
                            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                              Ah, the disadvantages of cold, hard cash.
                              No notes?

                              Comment

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