Tom And Jerry Racist?

[lilpixieofterror]

That's not an explanation.

Sure it is, I don't keep up with the latest rantings of who considers what racism these days just because it is so hard to keep with what is considered racism since it is so inconsistent and so hypocritical, in many cases.

But...that's what critics mean when they say the film whitewashed the reality of slavery.

Name a movie that doesn't end up whitewashing something.

I explained earlier in the thread that the false depiction was done for self-serving reasons to make the white slaveowners look good. The reality is that slaveowners sexually exploited female slaves, and to whitewash that reality, mammy characters in shows were desexualized and depicted as ugly and deeply loyal to the white families. There's a difference between that and simply having inaccurate depictions in movies like Braveheart.

Are you asserting that every last slave owner, ended up sexually exploiting every last female slave they owned? Who's being the bigot now? And you can scream, "WAAA!!! There is a difference!" of course there is a difference because you want to rant and cry about slavery and ignore that there isn't a movie around that doesn't end up painting fictional historical realities or end up with outright false ideas. Besides, I guess you haven't read about the stuff that Braveheart ended up stirring up in Scotland, have you? Even when huge parts of it are fictional and give a very inaccurate tale. Who cares though because it only matters if the movie depicts something that his majesty has issues with, right?

I didn't say anything about evil intentions. I don't think Hanna and Barbera actively hated black people. But they did use a character that was ultimately derived from racist minstrel shows (by extension of Mammy from GWTW being based off the mammy archetype, and hence they used racist elements in Tom and Jerry. Having racist elements isn't the same thing as having evil racist intentions.

Yep, keep screaming racism because you don't have an actual argument left, do you? Why is it ok to paint white people in a similar light, but it becomes wrong to paint a black person in the same way? Can you explain this or is screaming racism the only argument you have left?

This is irrelevant, as I never made any comment on whether it was okay. Whether it is or isn't doesn't affect whether the depiction of black women in mammy archetypes is acceptable.

It is perfectly relevant because it points out the hypocrisy of the whole rant about racism. If it is wrong to paint black people in some sort of flawed light; it is equally wrong to paint white people in some flawed light too. Where should the line be drawn at? What groups of people should be ok to lampoon and what groups shouldn't be? Shoot, I'm thinking of the character Madea that Tyler Perry uses that seems to fit some of those 'mammy archetype' sort of things. I'm not the only one who noticed that one since here is what the Wiki article, about Madea, says about her character in the criticism part:

Perry has been accused of minstrelsy and playing into black stereotypes with the Madea character, most notably by fellow black director Spike Lee. Perry's argument with Lee dates back to a 2009 interview in which Lee referred to Perry's films as "coonery buffoonery".[24] Lee equated the Madea movies with the old-time minstrel shows which lampooned black people as dim-witted, lazy, buffoonish, superstitious and happy-go-lucky,[25][26] and further stated that if a white director made a movie depicting black people in such a manner he would be ostracized.[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madea#Criticism

Funny how those things are only wrong when a white person does it, but many black people will line up around the block to watch a black person do the same thing, eh? I love how a fellow black director noticed this too, but again... Tyler Perry gets a free pass because he is black and it therefore okay for him to lampoon black's with classic stereotypes, but if a white person did it. What would the attitude be? The hypocrisy of the entire, "Waaaa that's racism!" crowd is truly an amazing thing to watch. Don't you agree?

No, the argument is that she acts similarly to how a racist caricature acted, and hence it is a racist element.

And yet, the same thing is perfectly okay to engage in when a black person does it, right? Why do black people line up around the block to watch Tyler Perry do it, but throw a fit over white people doing it 70+ years ago?

I don't see how a different version made 60 years later is relevant to racial attitudes in the 1940s and 50s.

So it is ok to depict white people as acting the same way, correct?

It seems logical rather than amazing that portraying a character in a manner that doesn't reflect racial stereotypes isn't considered racist. But oh well.

Yep because when you depict a white person as being stupid, that's ok, but God forbid a white person does the same thing to blacks, right? (because it seems Tyler Perry gets a free pass at it, as I've seen in many of his films and plays that blacks seem to line up to watch). Makes sense, if you don't think about it.

I wonder if you know how you seem to others, frequently saying "my point went woosh over your head" but rarely ever clarifying your point, and describing posts written in a calm tone as a foaming rant. Paprika evidently noticed that something was amiss with your characterizations.

Pap also takes an issue with about anybody that he doesn't agree with, your majesty. Having Pap on your side isn't the best indication that you're right.

[fm93]

Sure it is, I don't keep up with the latest rantings of who considers what racism these days just because it is so hard to keep with what is considered racism since it is so inconsistent and so hypocritical, in many cases.

This still doesn't answer how you got the idea that I was arguing about "cutting off the upper body of characters." I can only conclude from your non-answers that you didn't carefully read my post and instead simply jumped to conclusions.

Name a movie that doesn't end up whitewashing something.

In this instance, they whitewashed reality in a way that covered up their own racially-influenced sins in an attempt to hide it. That's the issue, and what distinguishes it from other films that are merely historically inaccurate.

Are you asserting that every last slave owner, ended up sexually exploiting every last female slave they owned?

No, but many of them did, and to present female slaves as unattractive/desexualized and extraordinarily subservient to white families is dishonest and a blatant cover-up for their
own racial crimes.

Yep, keep screaming racism because you don't have an actual argument left, do you? Why is it ok to paint white people in a similar light, but it becomes wrong to paint a black person in the same way?

I didn't say it was okay, and it doesn't address my argument.

If it is wrong to paint black people in some sort of flawed light; it is equally wrong to paint white people in some flawed light too.

Perhaps. But even if depictions of white people were even more prejudiced and bigoted than depictions of black people, it would still be utterly irrelevant to the discussion topic in this thread, which is that a particular depiction of black people is ultimately based on racism.

Where should the line be drawn at? What groups of people should be ok to lampoon and what groups shouldn't be?

That's a poor way of asking the question. You lampoon people based on their behavioral choices or ideas, not their innate and unchangeable characteristics.

Shoot, I'm thinking of the character Madea that Tyler Perry uses that seems to fit some of those 'mammy archetype' sort of things. I'm not the only one who noticed that one since here is what the Wiki article, about Madea, says about her character in the criticism part:

Perry has been accused of minstrelsy and playing into black stereotypes with the Madea character, most notably by fellow black director Spike Lee. Perry's argument with Lee dates back to a 2009 interview in which Lee referred to Perry's films as "coonery buffoonery".[24] Lee equated the Madea movies with the old-time minstrel shows which lampooned black people as dim-witted, lazy, buffoonish, superstitious and happy-go-lucky,[25][26] and further stated that if a white director made a movie depicting black people in such a manner he would be ostracized.[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madea#Criticism

Funny how those things are only wrong when a white person does it, but many black people will line up around the block to watch a black person do the same thing, eh? I love how a fellow black director noticed this too, but again... Tyler Perry gets a free pass because he is black and it therefore okay for him to lampoon black's with classic stereotypes, but if a white person did it. What would the attitude be?

There's a difference between poking fun at one's self (or a group that one belongs to) in good spirit and another person (or someone who doesn't belong to your group) making fun of you for who you are--especially if that person is a member of a group that's historically oppressed your group. Unless you think that Jews shouldn't be allowed to joke amongst themselves and then complain when neo-Nazis do it, I'd advise against that line of argument.

And yet, the same thing is perfectly okay to engage in when a black person does it, right? Why do black people line up around the block to watch Tyler Perry do it, but throw a fit over white people doing it 70+ years ago?

So it is ok to depict white people as acting the same way, correct?

Yep because when you depict a white person as being stupid, that's ok, but God forbid a white person does the same thing to blacks, right? (because it seems Tyler Perry gets a free pass at it, as I've seen in many of his films and plays that blacks seem to line up to watch).

Again, the issue of how white people are depicted is completely irrelevant to a discussion about a certain depiction of black people. Why do you keep harping on this side topic? Your posts far more closely resemble rants than mine do. Please, stick to the relevant issues in this thread. Media portrayals of white people can be discussed in a different thread.