Originally posted by lilpixieofterror
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Straight Guys Getting Married
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostAnd they are both wrong."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostBrace yourselves....
Source
Basically, these two straight guys are getting married so they can win a radio station contest that gives them a trip to the Rugby World Cup. They really like rugby, apparently.
Thoughts? If you support gay marriage, do you agree with the gay rights groups' condemnation of this marriage? If so, why? It is two consenting adults, after all.
Another question that comes to mind is this: if these two guys had lived somewhere that hadn't legalized gay marriage, would you argue that they were being discriminated against? If so, on what would the discrimination be based? (Obviously it's not their sexual orientation.) If not, well...why would you have a problem with two consenting adults getting married?
On a more serious note, I can't really say that I'm surprised (other than the fact that people are surprised about this). People get into straight marriages for similar shenanigans, so this sort of thing only seemed inevitable once gay marriage became legalized.Have You Touched Grass Today? If Not, Please Do.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostAbsolutely.
Generally, gay couples want to marry because they've found someone whom they've come to deeply love and admire and cherish with all their heart, so much so that they want to create a new and special life with each other, spiritually becoming one, unified in a beautiful and mystical harmony, vowing to maintain this loving bond for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do they part. It just so happens that they can only experience this love towards members of the same sex.
Meanwhile, these two straight New Zealand folks can only experience that type of love towards members of the opposite sex, yet they're marrying members of the same sex, whom they don't feel that type of love towards, because...they want free rugby tickets. The reason for people's anger towards them should be obvious.
Suppose that you live in an Islamic theocracy in which the Muslim government had a centuries-long policy that forbade you from practicing Christianity, and even today there are still countries all over the world in which Christians are prohibited from practicing their religion. Meanwhile, a group of Muslims who've always been able to practice their religion freely and care not one lick about your faith decide to host a church service replete with rituals like baptism and communion, for no other reason than to win free tickets to some sporting event. I imagine that you'd feel essentially the same way that marriage equality advocates feel about this New Zealand incident.
Nope.
In this instance, those two adults clearly don't love each other in that special, powerful way that compels people to marry in the first place. There's no sincerity behind it.
*This is, after all, the argument that gay marriage advocates unceasingly use.Last edited by Zymologist; 09-11-2014, 11:04 PM.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostSure. I'd have no problem with that, because it's completely different from traditional-marriage-only arguments. In the New Zealand incident, people who want to marry are trivializing it. Meanwhile, gay couples want to marry precisely because they DO hold marriage in high regard. They're doing the exact opposite of trivializing and mocking it.
But the real point is that it would be nice if gay marriage advocates could recognize that some of the opposition is not driven by any hatred of gays, nor a desire to deprive them of some privilege, but more by a desire to preserve and defend marriage as an institution....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Marriage is overrated.
My folks are currently separating and it's been a long time coming. A lot of people feel pressured to get married for fear of looking like they can't commit, which itself is not always a good thing. People get married and stay married for all the wrong reasons all the time and my parents are a testament to that.
I would never get married myself. Why would I? All I'd be doing is signing over my rights to the state and giving my woman legal right of way to potentially wreck my life if she gets vindictive after a break-up. I've seed it happen to way too many guys, and it put years on their life. I'm not trying to bash women, I love em'. But they courts system is set-up so that ninety percent of the time the guy gets screwed over, even if they woman makes as much money as he does, and even if they had a prenup! I know not all chicks are like that but so many are that guys are hesitant to get married.
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostWell, your last two sentences are a matter of opinion - I think many would say that seeking to redefine marriage to include people of the same sex precisely is not holding it in 'high regard'. Also, it's debatable just how many gay couples really do want to marry because they value marriage so much. No doubt some do, but not all I would suspect.
But the real point is that it would be nice if gay marriage advocates could recognize that some of the opposition is not driven by any hatred of gays, nor a desire to deprive them of some privilege, but more by a desire to preserve and defend marriage as an institution.
It’s all about granting equal civil rights for all citizens regardless of race or sexual orientation. And let’s face it, with a 50% divorce rate heterosexuals aren’t doing a fabulous job of preserving marriage as an institution – myself included regrettably.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIt’s all about granting equal civil rights for all citizens regardless of race or sexual orientation. And let’s face it, with a 50% divorce rate heterosexuals aren’t doing a fabulous job of preserving marriage as an institution – myself included regrettably.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostSo you are discriminating against them on the basis of their sexual orientation? Why are you opposed to two consenting adults getting married*?
Originally posted by MaxVel View PostWell, your last two sentences are a matter of opinion - I think many would say that seeking to redefine marriage to include people of the same sex precisely is not holding it in 'high regard'.
Just like black players who loved baseball so much that they wished to play at its highest and most prestigious level, many gay couples love each other so much that they wish to partake in the highest and most prestigious level of a relationship. It's because they do hold marriage in high regard that they wish to be included in it.
Also, it's debatable just how many gay couples really do want to marry because they value marriage so much. No doubt some do, but not all I would suspect.
But the real point is that it would be nice if gay marriage advocates could recognize that some of the opposition is not driven by any hatred of gays, nor a desire to deprive them of some privilege, but more by a desire to preserve and defend marriage as an institution.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View Post
Still playing dumb, I see.
You tell other people who they can and can't marry (and attempt to provide a reason for that judgment, presumably) every time the issue of marriage equality comes up; don't act like it's something that people can't talk about.
[ETA: to be clear, this particular issue is more over should and shouldn't rather than can or can't]
Besides, the point is that most gay couples want to marry for the same reason that most straight people do, and this New Zealand "couple's" reason for marriage is completely different.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut we all already had equal rights. We all had the right to marry a non-blood relation of the opposite sex. Sorry about your divorce - it sucks, I know.
And more specifically, you have the right to start a family with someone whom you intensely love, while other people don't. That's the inequality.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostSo, why are you telling these two guys that they shouldn't get married? What business of yours is it? Who died and made you arbiter of who should get married and who shouldn't? you chide me for the same thing. I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine.
So, are you claiming that those who don't fall into either "most" category should not get married? And on what criteria?Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostAnd more specifically, you have the right to start a family with someone whom you intensely love, while other people don't. That's the inequality.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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They tied the knot. And not every homosexual is in Peggie's corner either. Mike Peru, one of the hosts of The Edge and a gay man himself said "So two blokes can have an immense friends and strong bond, and I guess some of them would like to be married, I think it's a good thing to celebrate bromance in quirky way, and Matt and Travis really epitomised that."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ets-Rugby.htmlThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostActually, I have no problem with you trying to list reasons for why people should or shouldn't get married. I just happen to think that your reasons are based on faulty premises. You can absolutely try to set standards if they're valid.
Because I believe that marriage should be motivated by sincere love.
I've only said this, what, twenty times already? They CAN legally get married, just like you CAN legally trip a broken-legged kid on the street and walk away without helping him up. But in both cases, you're a major [rectal cavity] if you do that.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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