Originally posted by square_peg
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Straight Guys Getting Married
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"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostAnd that is completely immaterial to the fact that marriage is supposed to be about something different, unless you think that traditional straight marriage should be abolished because Britney Spears once partook in a 72-hour long marriage.
I thought I asked you to stop playing dumb.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostNo, not at all. Unlike Bill the Cat, I post what I believe is true, instead of raising dumb objections that I don't even believe myself just because it might possibly score a rhetorical point.
But in any case, "the definition of marriage" isn't relevant to why marriage equality advocates are upset. It's because people trivialized and made a mockery of something that they take very seriously and have long fought for sincerely and passionately. As I analogized earlier, imagine that you lived in an Islamic theocracy in which Christians were forbidden to practice their religion, and then some Muslims who don't care about Christianity at all held a church service with rituals like baptism and communion for the sole reason of winning tickets to a rugby match. That's the essence of why people are upset."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostSorry, Peggie. But you don't get to tell others who they can and can't marry, nor the reason behind it."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostSquare, you do realize that all they're doing is just redefining marriage, right?...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostBut in any case, "the definition of marriage" isn't relevant to why marriage equality advocates are upset. It's because people trivialized and made a mockery of something that they take very seriously and have long fought for sincerely and passionately. As I analogized earlier, imagine that you lived in an Islamic theocracy in which Christians were forbidden to practice their religion, and then some Muslims who don't care about Christianity at all held a church service with rituals like baptism and communion for the sole reason of winning tickets to a rugby match. That's the essence of why people are upset....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostYour majesty, he isn't. What is going on is just what was predicted when this whole thing started. Remember how some said this would start a slippery slope and you and others laughed at them? Looks like it isn't such a slippery slope at all and it seems this is a natural result of attempts to redefine marriage.
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostSorry, Peggie. But you don't get to tell others who they can and can't marry, nor the reason behind it.
[ETA: to be clear, this particular issue is more over should and shouldn't rather than can or can't]
Besides, the point is that most gay couples want to marry for the same reason that most straight people do, and this New Zealand "couple's" reason for marriage is completely different.Last edited by fm93; 09-11-2014, 08:45 PM.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostNext time you come across someone who calls people who want marriage to remain as it has always been 'homophobic', could you please repeat this to them?Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostThat's incorrect.
The slippery slope argument was that legalizing gay marriage would lead to things like people marrying relatives and animals and houses.
None of this has happened with regard to this case.
Here, the issue is that people are trying to marry for insincere reasons. You could forbid gay marriage all over the world and only allow straight people to marry, but wouldn't you be upset if the straight people who chose to use that right didn't actually want to marry, and did so solely because they wanted to win tickets to a sporting event?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Square_peg, it's really no different to a man and woman getting married for convenience (ie no sexual or romantic reasons)Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostNo it isn't, your majesty, and I'll explain why below.
Actually, your majesty, the argument was that people are going to start redefining marriage to mean whatever they want and those things were given as examples. If two consenting adults want to get married, even if it is just to win a contest or for 2 years, who are you to stop them and tell them they can't? Looks like the slippery slope is starting to come true.
That is because you don't understand when an example is being used. Please explain how the slow redefining of marriage doesn't result in cases, such as this, and will not continue to result in more stuff, just like this? Can you explain how that wouldn't work out, your majesty?
When you try to redefine marriage to mean whatever you want it to mean, that is what you end up with. Perhaps we should stop trying to redefine marriage and take it more seriously than we have been? Your majesty, might I suggest you stop pretending to be an all knowing king and start using that brain of yours instead?Last edited by fm93; 09-11-2014, 08:51 PM.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostBut technically, the definition of marriage isn't the issue in this case.
Marriage equality advocates aren't trying to legally forbid this marriage.
They're upset at the motive for the marriage. The advocates aren't telling the New Zealand men "You're doing something that's illegal," but rather "You're doing something that's extraordinarily rude and insensitive.""The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostGenerally, gay couples want to marry because they've found someone whom they've come to deeply love and admire and cherish with all their heart, so much so that they want to create a new and special life with each other, spiritually becoming one, unified in a beautiful and mystical harmony, vowing to maintain this loving bond for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do they part."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostSure it is, your majesty, because one of the major arguments that has been used is the idea that we don't have the right to tell two consenting adults what they can and can't do, so this is one of the results of that logic. If they consenting to getting married, even to win a contest or for a short time, who are you to tell them they can't?
They can't because marriage has been redefined and this is a natural result of that redefinition. Explain how it doesn't work otherwise.
I wasn't aware that being rude and insensitive was illegal in most areas of the world.
This is the natural results of the cheapening and redefinition of marriage. Marriages become cheap, meaningless, and whatever you want them to be.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostNo one is telling them that they can't. What they're being told is that they shouldn't.
Because the same thing can and has happened with traditional straight marriages. Definition has nothing to do with this issue.
No one is claiming that it is. Of course you can be a jerk if you so choose. But I think we can all agree that one shouldn't choose to be a jerk, correct?
But...this has been happening even before same-sex marriages were legalized. As I alluded to earlier, Britney Spears had a drive-thru marriage in Las Vegas (and upon further review, it was actually a mere 55 hours rather than 72) in January 2004, before Massachusetts became the first to legalize SSM in May of that year. Drive-thru marriages outrageously cheapen the institution, and yet they had nothing to do with re-defining marriage."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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