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Ray Rice?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    No, in the OP I quoted his wife. She is the person most affected, and she has forgiven him, and didn't want his firing. Doesn't her opinion count for anything?
    Abuse victims are often manipulated into thinking it was somehow their fault (the Baltimore Ravens Twitter account a few months ago even posted an apology from her for her "role in the incident", which has now disappeared), so I don't think the issue goes away just because of what she has said.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      There's a very bad tendency to minimise these events when they come out. That's what seer is doing whether he realises it or not. He's shifting blame away from Rice's physical assault of a woman, to the NFL being unfair.

      There's no doubt that they aren't, and I have little doubt that he deserves far worse than he got. Janet Palmer ought to have gotten a high payment for what happened to her, his career ends immediately and his contract is cancelled (he doesn't get the 25 million dollars).
      Ok, I just think that accusing him of defending wife beaters is a bit much.

      I take a very dim view of guys who do things like that. In fact, hearing about crap like this makes me angry.
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        No, in the OP I quoted his wife. She is the person most affected, and she has forgiven him, and didn't want his firing. Doesn't her opinion count for anything?
        Beyond citing her in order to defend Rice, when have you talked about her? Instead we got this

        Not only are they taking away Rice's livelihood...
        You all but went ', such a tragic thing to happen to him.'.

        She married him apparently after he was indicted for third degree aggravated assault, and he might get a 15000$ fine... not even a slap on the wrist for someone who makes an order of magnitude more than that in a month.

        Its the equivalent of fining the average American Joe 100$ for beating someone else unconscious.

        Hopefully he'll also get the three to five years in jail that he deserves.
        Last edited by Leonhard; 09-09-2014, 10:39 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
          Beyond citing her in order to defend Rice, when have you talked about her? Instead we got this



          You all but went ', such a tragic thing to happen to him.'.
          And as I also made clear it not only effects him it effects his "larger family", including his wife. And this may or may not apply to Rice, but many of these young black men grow up in situations where they never really develop the emotional tools to deal with anger and frustration.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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          • #20
            I understand you're not actively trying to defend him. I also know you respect women, and want them to be treated right. I'm not trying to antagonise you, I'm trying to make you aware of something you're doing.

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            And as I also made clear it not only effects him it effects his "larger family", including his wife.
            He makes so much money that it doesn't matter. He's even getting all the money from his contract even though he's being laid off.

            And this may or may not apply to Rice, but many of these young black men grow up in situations where they never really develop the emotional tools to deal with anger and frustration.
            Try to read this again, and tell me you're not trying to minimize what he's doing? Is what you're saying really an excuse?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post

              Try to read this again, and tell me you're not trying to minimize what he's doing? Is what you're saying really an excuse?
              No, it is not an excuse but a fact. Listen Ray never knew his father who was murdered. I never knew my father, and got in a lot of trouble in life. In my neighborhood there are a number of younger black boys - none of them have fathers in their lives, and I just feel bad for them.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                No, it is not an excuse but a fact. Listen Ray never knew his father who was murdered. I never knew my father, and got in a lot of trouble in life. In my neighborhood there are a number of younger black boys - none of them have fathers in their lives, and I just feel bad for them.
                That's good, but a lot of that doesn't excuse physically abusing someone. Rice needs to find a less prestigious job. Perhaps flipping burgers for a living.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Should they have fired him? Here is a tweet from his wife this morning. Not only are they taking away Rice's livelihood they are taking the family's income.
                  Sort of. After the backlash they got when the video came out, they pretty much had to as a business decision. However, the Ravens (and the NFL) should have reviewed all available evidence months ago and made a more reasonable decision then. The NFL'sRoger Goodell's initial punishment was way too lenient, and it took a huge backlash from that to get the NFL to change its policy in general. The indefinite suspension after the second video went public is an unwarranted, frantic and belated attempt to minimize further damage from the subsequent backlash.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                  • #24
                    It's all about perception. Greg Hardy (allegedly) threatened to kill a woman during a domestic incident and he's still playing. There's no video to go viral so the league isn't worried.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      That's good, but a lot of that doesn't excuse physically abusing someone. Rice needs to find a less prestigious job. Perhaps flipping burgers for a living.
                      The thing is Leonhard it is just more difficult for some people to do what is right. We all have our weak points.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        The thing is Leonhard it is just more difficult for some people to do what is right. We all have our weak points.
                        I can respect that and still demand justice. Unless he was very drunk, in Denmark, there would be no excuse for him.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          It's all about perception. Greg Hardy (allegedly) threatened to kill a woman during a domestic incident and he's still playing. There's no video to go viral so the league isn't worried.
                          And there is something of a double standard. A marginal player is much more likely to be released over something like this than a star player. Chris Rainey, for example, was released by the Steelers after the 2012 season for a much less egregious case of domestic violence.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            I can respect that and still demand justice.
                            Will you demand justice or mercy from God, for yourself and loved ones, on that great day of Judgement?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Will you demand justice or mercy from God, for yourself and loved ones, on that great day of Judgement?
                              Both.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I feel bad for Ray Rice given what he went through as a child (although it's quite a stretch to suggest that the long-time absence of a father figure in his life was somehow related to the domestic violence incident). I hope he truly repents of this and becomes a better man, and I wish him, Janay Palmer and their families well. I also firmly believe that he shouldn't be allowed to play professional football ever again. There's no contradiction between any of these statements.
                                Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                                I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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