Re: Michael Brown

[JimL]

Depends on whether it is blank because it was always blank or if it was blank because it was heavily redacted.

The point is that Wilson himself never filed a report. The point of a report is not to sit down with investigators and talk over the situation, it is to write down in your own words exactly what happened. He didn't do that, and that is according to the County investigator to whom the investigation was handed over to.

[JimL]

Goes to state of mind - admissible but you need to show relevance. Given his alleged confrontational attitude, I think the case for relevance can be made but I'm dubious this will show up at trial. The GJ may hear it, however.

Then so to would the fact that he just finished high school and was about to begin college. Besides, none of this matters if he was, as was testified to by many witnesses, surrendering with his hands in the air. If instead he was rushing headlong into gunfire to attack the officer, then the officer has a case for deadly force. But so far there is no evidence of that being the case.

[JimL]

Since WHEN have you ever been here for an "honest discussion"?



Not what you said, Jimmy --- and I asked REPEATEDLY for an explanation, but you just dug yourself in deeper, as is your "agenda".

No, you just hear what you want to hear CP, the same way you constantly take statements out of context.

[robrecht]

Not sure what you are getting at Robrecht. Two reports have been released, both long after the event, the both of which are blank. Also, you have right there in the link you provided where it states that Wilson never filed an incident report.

You asked for a link to support the fact that the Ferguson police report was heavily redacted and I provided it for you.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on that and I have heard law professionals argue both sides as well. But that is not the law that this case rests on anyway, so it is a moot point either way. The heart of the matter is whether or not Brown was surrendering when he was shot dead. The witnesses say that he was. Wilson on the other hand didn't file a report, and the County investigators have not released any details. There is only one reason for that, and that reason is a cover-up so that they can counteract any incriminating evidence that might emerge in the interim.

There is one press report, by NBC, that Wilson did not file a report, but that very well may be in error. It has apparently not been picked up by any other media sources, since on the same day the 'heavily redacted' report by was finally released to the public. I think you will eventually find that Wilson gave a statement soon after the shooting, possibly on tape. Just because it has not been released to the public does not mean it does not exist. Time will tell. The allegation that there was an altercation and struggle for the officer's gun is of key importance, just as is also the question of whether or not Brown was in the process of surrendering when Wilson killed him. If there were no altercation, there would be no valid reason for Wilson to begin shooting while Brown was running away. You really do not see the importance of this?

[Cow Poke]

No, you just hear what you want to hear CP, the same way you constantly take statements out of context.

Jimmy - The hyperlink is there for anybody who is interested in seeing what you said "in context". The problem is that you realize that MOST people here have figured out you're just a big empty echo chamber for the liberal talking points.

[Cow Poke]

Then so to would the fact that he just finished high school and was about to begin college.

That's just dumb. Something somebody actually DID is much more relevant than something somebody allegedly was GOING to do, but hadn't. Why is that such a difficult concept for you?

Besides, none of this matters if he was, as was testified to by many witnesses, surrendering with his hands in the air. If instead he was rushing headlong into gunfire to attack the officer, then the officer has a case for deadly force. But so far there is no evidence of that being the case.

Your mob mentality buddies' testimony doesn't matter Jimmy, until they are sworn in and testify UNDER OATH, subject to CROSS EXAMINATION. And that is IF this goes to court, which is not a sure thing.

[Cow Poke]

Job Applicant: I want a job.

Hiring Manager: I see on your facebook page a whole bunch of pictures of you flashing gang signs.

Job Applicant: Yeah, well, I was only kidding.

Hiring Manager: And you robbed a convenient store of some swisher sweets?

Job Applicant: The clerk was just a wimp - I didn't "rob" the store, I simply took what I wanted and he failed to stop me.

Hiring Manager: So you physically assaulted the clerk, then turned to intimidate him?

Job Applicant: Yeah, well, he was in my way.

Hiring Manager: You realize that swisher sweets are often used to make blunts, yes?

Job Applicant: I do that on my own time, with my buddies who also like to be photographed flashing gang signs.

Hiring Manager: Well, I'm sorry, but I don't think I can hire you.

Job Applicant: But I am signed up to go to Trade School!

Hiring Manager: Oh, well THAT makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD!!!!!

[lilpixieofterror]

I wouldn't have enough evidence to make an assessment, which isn't the case when it comes to police dealing with unarmed people.

I could tell you what the problem is right now. You have a high resistance valve caused by either a loose or corroded connection. See the problem yet with trying to talk about things you know nothing about? Again, the FBI would tell you that plenty of people are killed by unarmed people, so screaming, "DUH HE WAS UNARMED!" isn't an argument against the use of deadly force since I'm sure those 600+ people that are killed every year by fist and feet should object to your argument.

Leaving aside the fact that these is no evidence that Brown was attacking anyone, you could use a taser or pepper spray.

I suppose the officer just beat himself after the fact, eh? You also show more ignorance, but seem to be perfectly content with your ignorance. As CP pointed out, pepper spray isn't as effective as people make it out to be and a taser has the disadvantage of only being capable of dealing with one person at a time. I thought Brown had a friend with him making the use of a taser dangerous to the officer to use. Have you ever noticed that when a taser is used, other officers are present? Why do you think that is?

That doesn't seem to be a problem for the unarmed police in other countries, so it looks like our police are inferior. We should remedy that.

Or those countries have other reasons for not needing armed police, such as a population that generally follows the laws and doesn't need as much of an armed presence. Sorry PM, but other things go into affect beyond, 'Therefore our police are inferior'. Other things can easily be the cause beyond your bald assertion, such as a population generally less disposed to crime to begin with (such as is the case in Japan) or the case in the UK, where many major metro areas are under watch by thousands upon thousands of camera's.

I don't know about that. I think the UK is relatively equal to us in that regard.

Ever been to the UK? I have and I can tell you that it is almost all white and the CIA factbook will tell you the same thing. According to them, 87.2% of the population is white, with 3% being black. That also doesn't tell us the UK's general view of crime among the population either. Are they more or less likely to follow the laws to begin with?

Not necessarily. If it looks like a physical threat is imminent, I take no issue either. I do take issue with assuming that anyone trespassing on your property wants to kill you. Escalating the situation by shooting at someone who otherwise wouldn't harm you could increase the danger to yourself and your family. Threat assessment is an important skill and should be a vital for gun owners.

And again, if he didn't want to be thought of as a threat, he shouldn't of been where he wasn't invited to start with, but I guess using PM logic^TM you should just wait until they attempt to hurt you before you do anything about it. Again, do me a favor, don't run for office. We have enough insanity in office without adding somebody who would protect criminals from harm.

[Cow Poke]

And again, if he didn't want to be thought of as a threat, he shouldn't of been where he wasn't invited to start with, but I guess using PM logic^TM you should just wait until they attempt to hurt you before you do anything about it. Again, do me a favor, don't run for office. We have enough insanity in office without adding somebody who would protect criminals from harm.

Another CLASSIC example of liberal stupidity -- people should be free to do stupid and even illegal things with ZERO personal responsibility, and if something bad happens, it's ALWAYS the fault of somebody else. It is the entitlement society personified.

[lilpixieofterror]

Another CLASSIC example of liberal stupidity -- people should be free to do stupid and even illegal things with ZERO personal responsibility, and if something bad happens, it's ALWAYS the fault of somebody else. It is the entitlement society personified.

And can lead to a very scary situation. Those engage in criminal behavior can do whatever they want with zero regards to the possibility of having to deal with the possibility of being shot for their actions. I sure don't want to take that chance because all that would do is let those who intend to do you harm ensure they don't try until the moment is right. They can say things like, "I won't hurt you if you do what I say" and when you do it, they show their true intentions. I've read enough stuff on real life murders to know that you don't take the risk of giving them control. They often pretend to be doing something, like robbery, when their real intentions is to kill. Since I'm not a mind reader; why would I want to take the risk that the person who broke into my home isn't intending on doing myself and my family harm? Could PM seriously say they don't, despite actual murderers saying that is how they work in leading their intended victim into a false sense of security?

[Cow Poke]

In the statement you cite here, they refer to themselves as Vatterott College, but whether or not Michael Brown was pursuing a trade or an advanced degree in particle physics is completely irrelevant.

Calling a dog's tail a leg does not produce a five legged dog.

Since Jimmy keeps bringing this up, supposedly as proof that Brown was a good guy, I think it should be noted that this "college", on it's own website, seems to offer lots of trade school type stuff, so I inquired myself on their chat... OK, I was bored
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Thank you for contacting Vatterott Educational Centers, Inc. A trained Education Coordinator will be with you momentarily to discuss the programs that are offered at our campus.

[Prospective Student] Is Vatterott an accredited college?
[Sue C.] Welcome to Vatterott College, how may I help you reach your educational dreams?
[Sue C.] Hi my name is Sue, to whom am I speaking?
[Prospective Student] William
[Prospective Student] Can I get a two year or four year degree?
[Sue C.] Hi William nice to meet you, what campus are you closest to?
[Sue C.] May I ask how you heard about us?
[Prospective Student] Which campuses would offer a two or four year degree?
[Sue C.] William, that would depend on the program you are interested in
[Sue C.] and where you live.
[Prospective Student] ok, so which program would offer a 2 year or 4 year degree, and where would that be?
[Sue C.] Vatterott College and Vatterott Educational Center are accredited by the Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges (ACCSC). The Accrediting Commission of Career School and colleges is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized accrediting agency
[Sue C.] what city do you live in?
[Prospective Student] I'd be willing to travel -- which city offers 2 or 4 year degrees?
[Prospective Student] I don't understand why I can't get a simple answer to a simple question.
[Sue C.] http://www.vatterott.edu/ if you click on this link it is our main landing page. you will find a blue box that says"locate campus."
[Prospective Student] I've looked all over your website, I can't seem to find a 2 or 4 year degree plan.
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EVENTUALLY, I was told that I could get an associates degree in computers, but it was like pulling teeth to get THAT much info.

Now, note that I am NOT against Trade Schools -- in fact, it makes TOTAL SENSE for people to learn a trade where they can actually make money without incurring a huge debt for a Masters degree. And I know people who have attended a "college of hair design" or ... Jake actually attended Doggie College!

But the goofy unsubstantiated claim that Brown was "enrolled in college" is... well... just GOOFY relative to his robbing the store and have a fatal encounter with authority.

[Sparko]

Since when would going even to a 4 year college make someone a "good person?"

[Cow Poke]

OK, since things are slow, and I don't feel like laboring on labor day I did some more checking on who Brown was...

According to the Washington Post, Brown graduated late, but he DID graduate from High School, having been in "Alternative Education". I don't know what that means in Missouri, but in Texas it means you were pretty much a problem student ---

Source: washingtonpost

Michael Brown officially graduated Aug. 1, later than some and months after the photo was taken. He still had credits to earn then. He was in an alternative learning program, a way to help the students facing the longest academic odds.

© Copyright Original Source

And the "college" he was attending was "to start at a local technical school to learn how to fix furnaces and air conditioners."

That's actually to be COMMENDED -- having come from a difficult environment, to actually get his high school diploma and pursue a TRADE that would hopefully result in him being a productive member of society is GREAT!

Now, if he hadn't done something incredibly stupid like steal those swisher sweets and walk down the middle of the street with his buddy, he would probably never have even MET Wilson, let alone be shot dead by him.

Bad decisions often have bad consequences. That's a shame, but it's the truth.

[Cow Poke]

Since when would going even to a 4 year college make someone a "good person?"

It makes a good person less tolerable!

(And Jimmy seems to place a whole lot of stock in Brown's alleged academic ambitions)

[lilpixieofterror]

Since when would going even to a 4 year college make someone a "good person?"

Perhaps Jimmy and Co don't know that Ted Bundy and Dennis Rader were both college grads.