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Re: Michael Brown

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  • The Burley Mr. Brown

    Please pardon the interruption.

    From POWERLINE

    Concluding sentence:
    So from now on, the Times will draw a discreet veil over the stature of the burly Mr. Brown.

    Comment


    • That's what some folks just don't get.... an "unarmed" "burly" man can be pretty durn threatening, especially if he uses his mass to intimidate, as Brown so clearly did in the robbery. (Brown's family's attorney prefers to call it "shoplifting".)

      But what do most shoplifters do when discovered? They either drop the stuff and run, or take the stuff and run, or begin begging for mercy --- it's VERY unusual for "shoplifters" to simply face down the clerk and walk out of the store.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
        It should never be the last resort for a police officer to shoot an unarmed person. A person should be in danger of death before they consider using lethal force to defend themselves. I am not talking about an unarmed person killing anyone in general. I am talking about the threat an unarmed person poses to a police officer. I do not think it is possible or should be possible for a police officer to be in imminent danger of dying from a single unarmed assailant.
        See the link that I posted twice or the one that CMD posted once. This is just weird, at this point.
        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          It should never be the last resort for a police officer to shoot an unarmed person. A person should be in danger of death before they consider using lethal force to defend themselves. I am not talking about an unarmed person killing anyone in general. I am talking about the threat an unarmed person poses to a police officer. I do not think it is possible or should be possible for a police officer to be in imminent danger of dying from a single unarmed assailant.
          If you think that I would not shoot someone who was attacking me you are a fool. Self defense means I can defend myself. If someone is attacking you have no way to know how far they will carry it.

          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          How do you know if someone breaking into your home is willing to harm you and not just after your possessions? We can't know what a criminal is capable of, so there's no use making assumptions. You brought up a criminal harming you because they were interrupted or to prevent identification. Can't that happen, and indeed more, if one escalates the situation by shooting?
          "How do you know if someone breaking into your home is willing to harm you and not just after your possessions? We can't know what a criminal is capable of, so there's no use" taking a chance. Be ready to shoot if you need to.

          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
          Do you think the law should be amended to make the penalty for stealing death? What do you think is the cause of your terrible valuation of human life? Where is the limit to which you'd justify killing another person?
          I will assume that you are not an idiot and shot off this response without thinking.
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
            Are you keeping track of the conversation? I asked "Why do you think it is justifiable for a police officer to shoot an unarmed person?". You already said that you think the law dictates what is moral. This question has nothing to do with this particular case or my feelings.



            It should never be the last resort for a police officer to shoot an unarmed person. A person should be in danger of death before they consider using lethal force to defend themselves. I am not talking about an unarmed person killing anyone in general. I am talking about the threat an unarmed person poses to a police officer. I do not think it is possible or should be possible for a police officer to be in imminent danger of dying from a single unarmed assailant.
            I think you mean "always" should be a last resort to shoot an unarmed person. And it is. Police don't just draw and shoot someone unless they think their lives or others are in danger. At least that is how a good officer acts. Whether the assailant is armed or not, he can still pose a danger to the officer or others. I mentioned in this thread how my brother almost died as a cop when an unarmed man shattered his jaw while he was breaking up a domestic dispute. My brother was lucky his partner was there and the guy ran off before he finished the job.


            How do you know if someone breaking into your home is willing to harm you and not just after your possessions? We can't know what a criminal is capable of, so there's no use making assumptions. You brought up a criminal harming you because they were interrupted or to prevent identification. Can't that happen, and indeed more, if one escalates the situation by shooting?
            exactly, you CAN'T know if he is willing to harm you or not. But he is obviously a criminal and he obviously broke into your house, and he obviously doesn't want to get caught. Weight that against your own safety and that of your family and the prudent choice is to defend your life with deadly force.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              I don't think 'the people who want trouble' are that many and I do not agree that 'the police can't win'. Good communication is sometimes difficult but it is not impossible. If some of the stories and statistics that I have heard are true, than some of the anger and mistrust is justified.
              Few in number perhaps, but influential and with money to make. The following from the link provided by John Reece.

              So how will the Times describe Brown from now on? Svelte? Diminutive? I don’t suppose so. The paper’s real problem is that it doesn’t want readers to know that Brown was such a big guy. They just want to keep saying that he was “unarmed,” as though that precludes any necessity for self-defense. 6’4″ and 292 pounds clouds that narrative just a bit. So from now on, the Times will draw a discreet veil over the stature of the burly Mr. Brown.


              The lesson learnt from the Michael and Lindy Chamberlain case here has not been forgotten. Trial by media (a beat up that helped to boost sales) resulted in a miscarriage of justice that saw two innocent people jailed for a number of years, and (naturally enough) ruined their lives.
              Last edited by tabibito; 08-30-2014, 10:52 AM.
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                Few in number perhaps, but influential and with money to make. The following from the link provided by John Reece.

                So how will the Times describe Brown from now on? Svelte? Diminutive? I don’t suppose so. The paper’s real problem is that it doesn’t want readers to know that Brown was such a big guy. They just want to keep saying that he was “unarmed,” as though that precludes any necessity for self-defense. 6’4″ and 292 pounds clouds that narrative just a bit. So from now on, the Times will draw a discreet veil over the stature of the burly Mr. Brown.


                The lesson learnt from the Michael and Lindy Chamberlain case here has not been forgotten. Trial by media (a beat up that helped to boost sales) resulted in a miscarriage of justice that saw two innocent people jailed for a number of years, and (naturally enough) ruined their lives.
                None of this means that the police should not try to build trust with the citizens they serve.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                  None of this means that the police should not try to build trust with the citizens they serve.
                  I think one of the things that happened in this community is that it used to be almost all white, and as "white flight" occurred, the PD didn't adapt.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I think one of the things that happened in this community is that it used to be almost all white, and as "white flight" occurred, the PD didn't adapt.
                    Seems so.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I think one of the things that happened in this community is that it used to be almost all white, and as "white flight" occurred, the PD didn't adapt.
                      And then they failed to build relationships with the community and to maintain good PR. In the police-community dynamic, the onus is on the police to initiate the dialogue (absent a crisis). It's hard work, too. But if the Ferguson PD had been doing this all along, I don't think we'd see anywhere near the riot-related issues they're having.
                      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                      Comment


                      • Honestly, I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. A relationship is a multifaceted dynamic - maybe better relations would have helped but if a community is inflamed enough no PR will stop it. Since a lot of what we saw came from outside agitators I'm unsure we can correctly put all the onus on the police like that.

                        A community that self destructs has more issues than police pr will ever correct.

                        I don't know which, if either, is the case here.

                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by myth View Post
                          And then they failed to build relationships with the community and to maintain good PR. In the police-community dynamic, the onus is on the police to initiate the dialogue (absent a crisis).
                          Says who? :who:

                          It's hard work, too. But if the Ferguson PD had been doing this all along, I don't think we'd see anywhere near the riot-related issues they're having.
                          And the sky will always be blue and the sun will always shine and taxes will decrease....

                          I think you are WAY oversimplifying this.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            Honestly, I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. A relationship is a multifaceted dynamic - maybe better relations would have helped but if a community is inflamed enough no PR will stop it. Since a lot of what we saw came from outside agitators I'm unsure we can correctly put all the onus on the police like that.

                            A community that self destructs has more issues than police pr will ever correct.

                            I don't know which, if either, is the case here.
                            And when you get jackasses like Sharpton and Jackson coming in to "help", all bets are off!
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                              Having to be hospitalized for an orbital blowout fracture and then having to relocate yourself and your family due to massive rioting tends to interrupt normal police procedure, yes.
                              You are exagerating in support of your agenda. The officer was fine and was filmed casually walking through the crime scene long after the event. He could certainly have filed an incident report as is required. Besides that he wasn't in the hospital for nearly 2 weeks.


                              So it's a crappy case all around to build any big protests over.[/QUOTE]
                              No not at all, cops can't just go around shooting people in the back with the unsupported claim that the person attacked him first.


                              I'll believe that fellow gang members make reliable eyewitnesses when you can say "I was wrong and I'm sorry for making an idiot of myself."
                              Exagerating again to support your agenda. Who said they were gang members? Brown was about to begin his first year of college.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                ...cops can't just go around shooting people in the back ...
                                Jimmy, You are exagerating [sic] in support of your agenda.

                                Brown was NOT "shot in the back". There are ZERO bullet wounds in his back. I think you mean "shot at from behind", which is WAY different than being "shot in the back".

                                DRAMA!
                                Last edited by Cow Poke; 08-31-2014, 08:29 AM.
                                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                                Comment

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