"Five Israeli talking points, debunked".... Interesting

[Cow Poke]

Yes, I agree. This will make me an outcast here most likely but any general who suggests that on behalf of his nation deserves severe censure at the very least. There is no way that can be morally justified.

Well, let's slow down just a tad... first, is the question of IF "this Dahiya doctrine" is being implemented.
Then there's some clarification as to what the doctrine actually says --- "targeting civilian infrastructure" is not the same as "targeting civilians".

[Cow Poke]

Which is due in part to Israel controlling, among other things, water resources. If they don't get the resources they need for economic development, it's easy to see why they can't accomplish it.

If you were constantly threatening to destroy me, and lobbing missiles in my direction, I might not share my water with you, either. I might just tell you to get your own #$!!^^ water, or shut up with your "death to CP" rantings.

[Spartacus]

Well, let's slow down just a tad... first, is the question of IF "this Dahiya doctrine" is being implemented.
Then there's some clarification as to what the doctrine actually says --- "targeting civilian infrastructure" is not the same as "targeting civilians".

If they were only targeting infrastructure and trying to avoid hitting civilians themselves whenever possible, how can we explain the casualties?

[Spartacus]

If you were constantly threatening to destroy me, and lobbing missiles in my direction, I might not share my water with you, either. I might just tell you to get your own #$!!^^ water, or shut up with your "death to CP" rantings.

It's not about importing water from Israel-- it's about Israel selling the Palestinians' own water back to them.

[Cow Poke]

It's not about importing water from Israel-- it's about Israel selling the Palestinians' own water back to them.

No. It's not.

[Cow Poke]

If they were only targeting infrastructure and trying to avoid hitting civilians themselves whenever possible, how can we explain the casualties?

Because the idiot Palestinian leadership WANTS casualties, and tells the citizens to remain where they are, even though Israel is doing everything they can to announce where they're hitting next. Hammas plays to the world theater, and to the heartstrings of recent college graduates of Catholic institutions of learning.

[John Reece]

I found this interesting. I had been under the impression most of these talking points were accurate. Thoughts?

http://www.alternet.org/world/five-i...age=1#bookmark

I am surprised that any knowledgeable person could take the pro-Hamas/anti-Israel propaganda in that article seriously.

The Hamas charter = their constitution calls for the utter destruction of Israel. That is Hamas' stated raison d'être. They are constantly doing everything they can to attain that goal, regardless of what Israel does. They are constantly alternating between lobbing rockets into Israel towns and cities, on the one hand, and on the other hand, using ceasefire periods to prepare for the next round of lobbing rockets into Israel. No country in the world is expected to live as Israel does under such conditions ― other than Israel.

What is it about antiSemitism that drives the world so crazy?

[Spartacus]

No. It's not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_s...an_territories

Yes it is. Under the heading "Division in the Oslo II Accord"

In the Oslo II Accord, the Israelis are allotted four times the Palestinian portion or 80% of the West Bank resources.[13] However, 94% (340 mcm) of the Western Aquifer was allotted to the Israelis for use within Israel. The allowed quantities have not been adapted after the end of the supposed five years interim period. The parties established the Joint Water Committee to carry out the provisions of the concerning artikel 40 of Annex III.

Israel extracts more water from the West Bank than agreed in the Oslo Accord, while Palestinian abstractions were within the agreed range. Contrary to expectations under Oslo II, the water actually abstracted by Palestinians in the West Bank has dropped between 1999 and 2007. Due to the Israeli over-extraction, aquifer levels are near ″the point where irreversible damage is done to the aquifer.″ Israeli wells in the West Bank have dried up local Palestinian wells and springs.

And then under "financial aspects," we see that Palestinians pay a tariff on their own groundwater.

[Cow Poke]

And then under "financial aspects," we see that Palestinians pay a tariff on their own groundwater.

You mean the Palestinians aren't using their own desalinization plants they built with all the money and material they're getting from Qatar and Iran and other Muslim countries?

Oh, THAT'S right -- they're buying bombs and rockets and spending their time on TUNNELS instead!

[Spartacus]

You mean the Palestinians aren't using their own desalinization plants they built with all the money and material they're getting from Qatar and Iran and other Muslim countries?

Oh, THAT'S right -- they're buying bombs and rockets and spending their time on TUNNELS instead!

Please respond to what I posted. I'm frankly surprised that you're reacting so emotionally to this: one would almost think that lives depended directly on your ability to get me to shut up on this topic.

[Cow Poke]

Please respond to what I posted. I'm frankly surprised that you're reacting so emotionally to this:

I'm not responding emotionally, Spart. I'm responding dismissively. If you are sworn to my destruction, why should you expect me to kiss your butt?

one would almost think that lives depended directly on your ability to get me to shut up on this topic.

That's just plain goofy --- you can post as much as you'd like.

[Spartacus]

I'm not responding emotionally, Spart. I'm responding dismissively. If you are sworn to my destruction, why should you expect me to kiss your butt?

That's just plain goofy --- you can post as much as you'd like.

OK, then: with respect to the factual question of who controls all of Palestine's water supply and uses most of it while charging the Palestinians to use the remainder, is it clear that I was right and you were wrong?

[Cow Poke]

OK, then: with respect to the factual question of who controls all of Palestine's water supply and uses most of it while charging the Palestinians to use the remainder, is it clear that I was right and you were wrong?

It is absolutely totally beside the point. I wasn't arguing that point at all -- When I said "no, it's not", it was in response to your attempt to frame the problem as something other than "you are sworn to my destruction, therefore, why should I give a flying flip about where you get your water, or how much you pay".

As your friend Barak Obama says, "elections have consequences". The Palestinians in Gaza elected these "Israel must die" jackwagons.

[Teallaura]

Let's see if I get this straight. The Palestinians who are funded by their deep pocketed Arab 'friends' can't afford to pay off the Israelis (who strangely haven't used water to actually drive the PA out) and then progress - but they can support Hamas and its rocket budget.

Anyone else see a problem here?

[Cow Poke]

If any nation or group of people on the face of the earth made a comment "all black people must die", the liberals would be absolutely apoplectic and fall all over themselves denouncing this bigotry and hatred.

Why, then, is it OK to say the exact same thing, but replace "black people" with "Jews"? Why does the world have any tolerance at all for a group of people who have publicly -- AS PART OF THEIR CHARTER -- declared that another group of people must be destroyed?