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Homosexuality debate (split from climate change thread)
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Homosexuality debate (split from climate change thread)
Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
-Hernando Cortez
What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
-Frederick 2, Holy Roman EmperorTags: None
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Homosexuality debate (split from climate change thread)
Sigh.
Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostDon't forget that APA and it's "Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, and if you disagree, you're homophobic" screed.
Sure, many members of the organization, including its former president, have come forth saying that they changed the classification purely for political reasons and not because of scientific research
and sure, they recently held a vote to reclassify it as a mental disorder, which 40% of the organization voted in favor of doing....
but, you know, that's homophobic.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Gross misrepresentation of the situation.
So wrong. There actually exists and existed scientific research indicating that homosexuality should not be considered a mental disorder. Pretty much any college level psychology textbook will tell you this. The classification change was not purely for political reasons.
Gonna need a source for that claim.
In the months that I've been on this revamped forum, I don't think I've ever seen you talk about homosexuality in a calm, straightforward (no pun intended) manner. You've always been cranky and sarcastic when trying to comment on that issue. I have, however, seen you display appalling insensitivity and ignorance, if not outright disgust. I also detect defensiveness in your tone, as if the heavy sarcasm is ultimately a facade to mask some deep disturbed feeling about the word "homophobia" being applied to you. Given all this, I have reason to suspect that ironically, what people mean by homophobia (which I ordinarily believe is a term that's misused) does in fact describe your behavior and attitudes. You give me little reason to believe otherwise, quite frankly. But you can, of course, attempt to explain your positions and attitudes.Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
-Hernando Cortez
What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
-Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostGonna need a source for that claim.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostDon't forget that APA and it's "Homosexuality is not a mental disorder, and if you disagree, you're homophobic" screed. Sure, many members of the organization, including its former president, have come forth saying that they changed the classification purely for political reasons and not because of scientific research, and sure, they recently held a vote to reclassify it as a mental disorder, which 40% of the organization voted in favor of doing.....but, you know, that's homophobic.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostNo it isn't.
Eh, no, there really isn't. It was done purely for political reasons.
Alright, well, I have to admit, it wasn't that "recent", but still. It was during an APA referendum in 1974, you could probably find it in their records. Still though, almost half of them voted against it.
Oh boy, I just love pseudo-psychological analysis.
If you want to know, though, yes, I don't like being called homophobic, because it's an infantile slur, made up for the purpose of slander. No different than "faggot", really.
Indeed. Looking back, it's inspiring to see how far we've come since those dark days for straight people who--oh, wait. None of those things ever happened. But at least "homophobe" was used essentially the same way that "faggot" was used--no, that isn't the case either. Come to think of it, "homophobe" is COMPLETELY different from the usage of the word "faggot." This is what I meant when I said you'd displayed appalling insensitivity and ignorance.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI see there is a South Park episode dealing partly with this issue – “Cartman Sucks” – Series 11, Episode 2 – featuring a Christian conversion therapy camp.
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/155516/butters-speechLearn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostAh, yes. The very point of that episode is that homosexuality isn't a mental disorder. Hence why Butters says "Alright, that does it! I am sick and tired of everyone telling me I'm confused! I wasn't confused until everyone started telling me I was!"
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/155516/butters-speechAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI see there is a South Park episode dealing partly with this issue – “Cartman Sucks” – Series 11, Episode 2 – featuring a Christian conversion therapy camp.Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
-Hernando Cortez
What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
-Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor
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A mental disorder is typically defined as a pattern of thoughts/feelings/action that on its own is deviant, distressful and dysfunctional. There was and is plenty of research and evidence showing that homosexuality isn't dysfunctional to the individual, since plenty of gay people can function perfectly well in society without needing drugs or medication. It didn't meet the "distressful" criterion, because research indicated that homosexuality on its own didn't cause the individual distress; socially-imposed religious/cultural standards did. Even the "deviant" criterion was called into question, because research revealed that homosexuality could be traced not only in virtually all societies, but also in the animal kingdom. With all the scientific research available, it could not have been purely for political reasons.
2) You can't say that something is not deviant just because it exists in all societies. Murder exists in all societies as well. You also cannot use the excuse that "animals do it" because....well, they don't, actually.
It's not pseudo-psychological analysis. Homophobia is defined as "irrational fear or aversion to homosexuality or homosexuals." I definitely don't think it's fair to consider homophobia an actual clinical pathology, but your posts do clearly show aversion to homosexuality, and the insensitivity and ignorance I've seen you display seem to qualify as irrational. I was essentially just going through a check-list and crossing things off, not performing psychoanalysis.
That brings back so many traumatic memories. Like that time I saw a bunch of teenagers on the street yell "Hey! That punk over there doesn't think gay people should be treated with equal respect and dignity!" and proceeded to corner the guy, beat him up, and spray-paint 'Homophobes Should Die' on the wall just above his fractured skull. And that time when American society had legislation forbidding straight people to marry, and supporters counter-protested the protesters by saying "Don't let those homophobes and heteros destroy the institution of marriage! God's word clearly says that marriage is between a man and a man, and that being straight is an abomination! It's Adam and Steve, not Adam and Eve! Straights can't be good parents; don't let those homophobes lead our children and country to hell!" And that time when AIDS was called "the straight cancer" during the crisis in the 1980s, and people said "Those AIDS-ridden homophobes are infecting our entire population with that hetero disease!" And that time when an extremist church group picketed funerals and spewed anti-straight messages, and said after every tragedy and disaster that "God was smiting that country for its acceptance of homophobes. There were five thousand or ten thousand people killed, and every last one of them was a homophobe or homophobe-enabler, and when they died they split hell wide open!"
Indeed. Looking back, it's inspiring to see how far we've come since those dark days for straight people who--oh, wait. None of those things ever happened. But at least "homophobe" was used essentially the same way that "faggot" was used--no, that isn't the case either. Come to think of it, "homophobe" is COMPLETELY different from the usage of the word "faggot." This is what I meant when I said you'd displayed appalling insensitivity and ignorance.Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
-Hernando Cortez
What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
-Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor
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That was in its infancy. As the decades roll on and more research rolls in, the dissenting side has increasingly shrunk.Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
-Hernando Cortez
What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
-Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostEh, no it hasn't, it's just being threatened out of existence.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post2) You can't say that something is not deviant just because it exists in all societies. Murder exists in all societies as well. You also cannot use the excuse that "animals do it" because....well, they don't, actually.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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yes, it is known in a number of animal speciesBetter to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
-Hernando Cortez
What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
-Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor
Comment
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post1) What research showed that the distress was not caused by the homosexuality itself?
2) You can't say that something is not deviant just because it exists in all societies. Murder exists in all societies as well.
You also cannot use the excuse that "animals do it" because....well, they don't, actually.
The definition of "spearchucker" is "a black person", therefore, no black person should be offended if I call them a spearchucker, right?
Yes, nothing like that ever happened....I mean, there was that one case of a guy getting fired for supporting traditional marriage...and another case of a pastor getting put in the hospital by a homosexual mob.....and another case of German homosexuals attacking anti-gay protesters by throwing human feces at them....and that other case of the LGBT having a "hit-list" of anti-gay businesses to go harass, threaten, sue, and sometimes, violently attack, if needed, no, none of those happened, it's just too inconvenient for you.
Eh, no it hasn't, it's just being threatened out of existence.Last edited by fm93; 07-26-2014, 01:20 PM.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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