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Tony Dungy Next?

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  • Tony Dungy Next?

    A completely reasonable concern - but how long before the long knives come out!

    Tony Dungy has always had a strong voice on African-American issues and even was a guiding light for Michael Vick at his lowest point.

    But the former Buccaneers and Colts head coach told the Tampa Bay Tribune he would not have wanted to help shepherd Michael Sam into the NFL if he was still coaching.

    “I wouldn’t have taken him,’’ said Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. “Not because I don’t believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn’t want to deal with all of it.

    “It’s not going to be totally smooth … things will happen.’’
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...lkA1ZJUDQ2OF8x
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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  • #2
    I think it's okay because he is black. Though I wouldn't it passed some (msnbc, TYT, media matters) to still label him a racist.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      I think it's okay because he is black. Though I wouldn't it passed some (msnbc, TYT, media matters) to still label him a racist.
      Or a homophob...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        I think it's okay because he is black. Though I wouldn't it passed some (msnbc, TYT, media matters) to still label him a racist.
        Why would he get labeled a racist?
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #5
          When you're willing to support and advocate acceptance for a player who was involved in brutally killing dogs (which is a crime that in Vick's case generated plenty of distraction), and you don't publicly criticize someone like Ray Rice who committed domestic abuse (also a crime that will most likely generate plenty of distraction), yet you frown upon a player who happens to be gay (which is not a crime) because it might generate distractions...well, that seems more than a bit hypocritical and disingenuous.

          Not to mention...Dungy is black, and I can't imagine that he would've been okay with a general manager refusing to draft [whoever the first black pro football player was] on the basis of "not wanting to deal with it."

          (If anyone was unclear, this was a response to the OP, not to KingsGambit's post)
          Last edited by fm93; 07-21-2014, 11:40 PM.
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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          • #6
            Eh, it's unclear if Dungy meant in a mentoring capacity, or more likely, as a player on his team. A head coach's responsibilities differ from those of a mentor so that might be his rationale - dunno. I can't tell from the article linked or the article it is linked to { here } what context Dungy is speaking in.

            Anyone have a transcript of the full discussion?

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • #7
              square_peg does raise a point that's been bothering me: NFL fans as a whole simply don't seem to care about what Ray Rice did. (He is a star player who was seen on video dragging his unconscious girlfriend out of an elevator following a fight.) And I know it's not that nobody cares about off field issues in the first place because people were upset about Michael Vick.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                square_peg does raise a point that's been bothering me: NFL fans as a whole simply don't seem to care about what Ray Rice did. (He is a star player who was seen on video dragging his unconscious girlfriend out of an elevator following a fight.) And I know it's not that nobody cares about off field issues in the first place because people were upset about Michael Vick.
                I wonder how many of them even heard about it? I didn't know about until now...and I follow football fairly closely. I think those of us who know about it, do care about it. I will make it a point to not buy anything he endorses. Also, was Tony Dungy specifically asked about Ray Rice? If not, then that's the same as an argument from silence. Michael Vick, served time and suspension for his actions, he apologized, made retribution, and spent time advocating for reform to clean up the illegal industry. What more can he do after the fact? He deserves to have the benefit of the doubt for now IMHO. Square Peg's argument falls short IMO in that Michael Sam, though not doing anything illegal WILL cause distractions in the locker room and the field just by being openly gay. It's just going to happen. He may earn the respect of his teammates, but that remains to be seen. Tony Dungy wasn't commenting on the fact that he was wrong or committing a crime, just that the obvious issues that are going to arise would be more than he would want to have to deal with...
                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                  When you're willing to support and advocate acceptance for a player who was involved in brutally killing dogs (which is a crime that in Vick's case generated plenty of distraction), and you don't publicly criticize someone like Ray Rice who committed domestic abuse (also a crime that will most likely generate plenty of distraction), yet you frown upon a player who happens to be gay (which is not a crime) because it might generate distractions...well, that seems more than a bit hypocritical and disingenuous.

                  Not to mention...Dungy is black, and I can't imagine that he would've been okay with a general manager refusing to draft [whoever the first black pro football player was] on the basis of "not wanting to deal with it."
                  False equivocation. Being [x] skin color is not equivalent to flaunting sexual deviance. One is morally neutral; the other is not.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                    I wonder how many of them even heard about it? I didn't know about until now...and I follow football fairly closely. I think those of us who know about it, do care about it. I will make it a point to not buy anything he endorses. Also, was Tony Dungy specifically asked about Ray Rice? If not, then that's the same as an argument from silence. Michael Vick, served time and suspension for his actions, he apologized, made retribution, and spent time advocating for reform to clean up the illegal industry. What more can he do after the fact? He deserves to have the benefit of the doubt for now IMHO. Square Peg's argument falls short IMO in that Michael Sam, though not doing anything illegal WILL cause distractions in the locker room and the field just by being openly gay. It's just going to happen. He may earn the respect of his teammates, but that remains to be seen. Tony Dungy wasn't commenting on the fact that he was wrong or committing a crime, just that the obvious issues that are going to arise would be more than he would want to have to deal with...
                    I don't think he was asked, but I do think he's commented on issues that he wasn't asked about in the past. And Vick indeed made retribution, but it is a fact that his issues were still considered a distraction, and yet Dungy was willing to deal with it all. That's hypocritical.
                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      False equivocation. Being [x] skin color is not equivalent to flaunting sexual deviance. One is morally neutral; the other is not.
                      Good thing Sam was just blazing a trail by acknowledging and standing by a part of his natural identity instead of hiding it, and not flaunting any sexual deviance.

                      But even if you want to interpret it in such an ungracious manner, it doesn't change the point. Refusing to take a minority player because you "don't want to deal with distractions" is terrible and deeply ironic, not to mention retardant of progress.
                      Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                      I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                        I don't think he was asked, but I do think he's commented on issues that he wasn't asked about in the past. And Vick indeed made retribution, but it is a fact that his issues were still considered a distraction, and yet Dungy was willing to deal with it all. That's hypocritical.
                        No, it isn't hypocritical - just because you are willing to deal with Problem A doesn't mean you necessarily have to be willing to deal with Problem B. I am perfectly willing to counsel someone who has HIV - I'm also qualified and have a good idea of what to do. I am not willing to counsel someone with cancer. I'm not as qualified, have less of an idea of what needs to be done and frankly, don't have the time to learn. I'd much rather find that person a counselor that CAN do the work rather than mess around trying to do it myself. Not only is it a hassle, I'm not serving that person well at all.

                        With only one short sentence, we have no idea why exactly Dungy didn't 'want to deal with it'. But he isn't obligated to deal with every possible problem child and there is no hypocrisy in refusing to deal with a particular case. It would only be hypocritical if Dungy had said he'd deal with all comers - and no one has provided any information of that sort.

                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                          I don't think he was asked, but I do think he's commented on issues that he wasn't asked about in the past. And Vick indeed made retribution, but it is a fact that his issues were still considered a distraction, and yet Dungy was willing to deal with it all. That's hypocritical.
                          Sorry, but the circumstances are not comparable. Being a mentor to one individual is not the same as managing a whole team (plus the support personnel). So, no, it's not hypocritical. Apples and oranges. Also, can you show where Vick became a distraction when he joined a team?
                          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            No, it isn't hypocritical - just because you are willing to deal with Problem A doesn't mean you necessarily have to be willing to deal with Problem B. I am perfectly willing to counsel someone who has HIV - I'm also qualified and have a good idea of what to do. I am not willing to counsel someone with cancer. I'm not as qualified, have less of an idea of what needs to be done and frankly, don't have the time to learn. I'd much rather find that person a counselor that CAN do the work rather than mess around trying to do it myself. Not only is it a hassle, I'm not serving that person well at all.

                            With only one short sentence, we have no idea why exactly Dungy didn't 'want to deal with it'. But he isn't obligated to deal with every possible problem child and there is no hypocrisy in refusing to deal with a particular case. It would only be hypocritical if Dungy had said he'd deal with all comers - and no one has provided any information of that sort.
                            You refuse to deal with cancer because the treatment procedure is significantly different from HIV treatment. But Dungy's excuse for not dealing with Sam--that the player's presence might cause distractions--equally applied to Vick.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                              Sorry, but the circumstances are not comparable. Being a mentor to one individual is not the same as managing a whole team (plus the support personnel). So, no, it's not hypocritical. Apples and oranges. Also, can you show where Vick became a distraction when he joined a team?
                              The Eagles received much media coverage, and the fact that their players (many of whom probably owned dogs at some point) would have to play with someone who'd been in jail for taking part in killing dogs raised some hackles.

                              Also, the mentorship detail misses the point. Dungy also wanted Vick to have a chance to play in the NFL again. He was the biggest Vick advocate out there. Clearly, he thought teams should ignore the possibility of distraction and accept the player simply because of athletic merit. Yet he doesn't think the same way about Sam.
                              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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