I Am Woman Hear Me Whine!

[seer]

How very, very, VERY true! Well stated, Seer.

You do realize that you are being extremely Politically Incorrect for stating that truth, right?
I mean, it may border on being a Hate Crime. And heaven help you should you run into a
herd of NOW "women" - they'll skin you alive!

You see, the essence of what you're saying is that there should be self-responsibility.
Yet we live in times where the finger very often points away from the person that is
primarily responsible for the situation.

Here, for example, barring the case of forced rape - in which case the man absolutely
should be imprisoned - it is the woman that makes her pregnancy possible. All she has
to do is say "NO" and birth control is guaranteed - no pills or shots needed. But they
don't say "NO" and so they want to make others responsible.
"I play, you pay" -- that is the mindset of these "modern, liberated responsible women".
Needless to say - but I'll say it anyway - a man bears equal responsibility here
and should also not pass that responsibility to others.

Lastly, your point about how women used to be struck home with me.
But they've mutated (Evolution anyone?) into mall-shopping, Girls-night-out, manicure/
pedicure fetish freaks, can't cook or hate cooking, can't clean or don't clean or hate to
clean, I'll break a nail, my-money-is-mine-your-money-is-mine, it's-all-about-me-mindset that,
frankly, provides some explanation why the homosexual population has exploded in the
last 40 years (I'm not saying that this is right or justified - some men are simply terrified
of these "women" and running away from them as fast as their legs will carry 'em!).

Meh ... it's all part of the signs and times that we live in.

Jorge

Amen!

[Darth Executor]

If women didn't have to get birth control on their own they could be even more independent and self-reliant.

Do you know what "independent" means?

[Jorge]

Deer seer,

"Deer" ???

As to medical necessity, again, read her testimony. Ovarian cysts and endometriosis are real women's health issues which can be treated with birth control.

As ever, Jesse

Sounds a lot like the push to legalize marijuana because of its medical uses.
Not denying that these uses exist, but the FACT of the matter is that the
vast majority of those pushing for legal pot is because they are pot-loving
junkies that want to indulge without legal consequences. The very same
thing occurred with Prohibition (alcohol).

Jorge

[sylas]

I thought the whole feminist movement was about women becoming more independent, more self-reliant.

You are misinformed.

Feminism is about equality of rights, opportunities, and status for women.

It most certainly is not about overcoming the systematic social biases and burdens faced by women simply by becoming able to manage them. It is about removing them.

You're welcome -- sylas

[fm93]

Here, for example, barring the case of forced rape - in which case the man absolutely
should be imprisoned - it is the woman that makes her pregnancy possible. All she has
to do is say "NO" and birth control is guaranteed - no pills or shots needed. But they
don't say "NO" and so they want to make others responsible.
"I play, you pay" -- that is the mindset of these "modern, liberated responsible women".
Needless to say - but I'll say it anyway - a man bears equal responsibility here
and should also not pass that responsibility to others.

Lastly, your point about how women used to be struck home with me.
But they've mutated (Evolution anyone?) into mall-shopping, Girls-night-out, manicure/
pedicure fetish freaks, can't cook or hate cooking, can't clean or don't clean or hate to
clean, I'll break a nail, my-money-is-mine-your-money-is-mine, it's-all-about-me-mindset that,
frankly, provides some explanation why the homosexual population has exploded in the
last 40 years (I'm not saying that this is right or justified - some men are simply terrified
of these "women" and running away from them as fast as their legs will carry 'em!).

Meh ... it's all part of the signs and times that we live in.

Jorge

chappelle face.jpg

I can't believe it. You just said things about reproduction and homosexuality that were even more ridiculous than what you usually say about evolution.

[Juvenal]

Jesse, I did read her whole testimony on line. It doesn't change a thing. Her testimony is about contraception in general and not just about what would be considered medically necessary (which I wouldn't have a problem with). For the most part birth control is not medically necessary. And I don't think I should pay for your condoms either. I'm sorry it is a sad commentary on our culture and the idea of self-reliance in general.

Dear seer,

Allow me once again to point out that paying for one's insurance is paying for the medical care provided by that insurance. If an insured is paying for their insurance, then it is not true that someone else is paying for their medical care.

Moreover, it is not true that paying for birth control costs money. Not if pregnancy, pre-natal care and birth are covered, the sum total of which are far more expensive than contraceptives. If you'd like to make an argument that these latter should not be covered, please do so. I'll listen, but I freely admit I am likely to oppose such arguments.

If, however, you are not arguing that these procedures should be excluded, then the arithmetic is clear. You are supporting a policy that would cost others money in increased premiums. Again, the arithmetic is clear, and so please allow to me to rebut: I do not wish to pay for your religious preferences.

If you want a plan that excludes contraception, pay the extra yourself.

As ever, Jesse

[seer]

For one thing, some types of birth control like IUDs (which Hobby Lobby refuses to cover) can cost up to $1000, which indeed can be difficult for a woman (or a man buying one for a woman) to obtain on her own, especially if she's poor. Moreover...

So they can't afford condoms or practice self control?

...Hobby Lobby DOES cover vasectomies, which indicates that the executives are more than willing to financially assist men with birth control. Yet they aren't willing to do quite the same for women. Ergo, there's an apparent lack of equality here. Hence, feminists see reasons to object.

Nonsense Hobby Lobby offers 16 forms of birth control, including the pill. But hey, I don't want to pay for another guy's vasectomy either.

Furthermore, birth control isn't used solely for the purpose of contraception--it also serves as a form of vital health care. It can reduce the risk of cancers, relieve pain during menstrual periods, fight against endometriosis, etc. Some women believe that as such, they should have the right to pay for it out of the insurance that's part of their compensation package, rather than leaving it up to the discretion of their boss. Quite a few are also annoyed by the fact that Hobby Lobby is willing to cover Viagra for its medical functions for men but not certain forms of birth control for women.

If there is a real medical reason that can't be addressed in another fashion, then it would be medically necessary - which it isn't generally.

We have today a more diverse group of women who have the strength to do what your mother and sisters did, as well as the freedom to pursue other options such as practicing law, becoming scientists and engineers, founding and running their own companies--things that women in your mother's time were more heavily discouraged or prohibited from doing. That's in large part due to feminism. Why are you apparently so opposed to it, seer? Why do conservatives like you hate freedom so much?

I never said I minded women doing those thing, just the fact that they have become whiners. And you are assuming that my mothers and aunts didn't find their jobs homemakers as fulfilling as anything we see today. I work with two young ladies that are both degreed - they would do anything to remain home with their children full time. Sadly they do not have the option, financially.

More like a generation of intelligent, strong women who can make their voice heard when perceiving and pointing out injustice and inequality.

Pure BS, the women today can not hold a candle to the women I grew up with. They would starve to death if the local Supermarket closed. They have zero survival skills.

Are you also telling men "If you don't want to get anyone pregnant, keep your penis in your pants?" If you're against birth control for women (not saying that you definitely are, but that statement does seem to give me that impression), then you really also ought to be against birth control for men if you value consistency.

Of course men should keep it in their pants - if not let them buy their own damn condoms.

[Darth Executor]

You are misinformed.

Feminism is about equality of rights, opportunities, and status for women.

It most certainly is not about overcoming the systematic social biases and burdens faced by women simply by becoming able to manage them. It is about removing them.

You're welcome -- sylas

You are the one who is misinformed. Feminism is about status jockeying that favors women (and particularly, women on the bottom end of the attractiveness scale).

[DesertBerean]

so you are saying they need help being self-reliant?

^this!

[lilpixieofterror]

Is anybody going to at least address the critical issues yet:

1. Employers do indeed pay part of people's insurance and/or include it as part of their benefits package and end up paying all of it when they do that.
2. The entire case was not against birth control at all, it was against some birth control pills, not all.

[seer]

Dear seer,

Allow me once again to point out that paying for one's insurance is paying for the medical care provided by that insurance. If an insured is paying for their insurance, then it is not true that someone else is paying for their medical care.

Nonsense, the more options that are in the policy the more the costs are spread. A plan with birth control will cost more than a plan without. All the insured in that plan will share in the cost. Unless you have a personal plan where you can pick and choose your coverage. Which is harder to do with the ACA - which I think now requires all policies to cover birth control.

Moreover, it is not true that paying for birth control costs money. Not if pregnancy, pre-natal care and birth are covered, the sum total of which are far more expensive than contraceptives. If you'd like to make an argument that these latter should not be covered, please do so. I'll listen, but I freely admit I am likely to oppose such arguments.

Like I said, I have no problem with what is medically necessary, and birth control generally is not. Tell me, why can't women buy their own condoms for instance? Are they really that feckless and useless?

[seer]

Feminism is about equality of rights, opportunities, and status for women.

And getting other people to pay for their birth control, day care and such...

[Christianbookworm]

To a degree, I have co pays on all my medications, from what I understand birth control in ACA it has to be free, i.e. without co pays. But still, even with insurance the cost is spread to other policy holders (never mind the fact that birth control is not medically necessary). And it is more about the mindset - if a Sandra Fluke, a smart college lass, can't find a way to pay for her own contraception or control her sexual appetite then really we are all screwed. This is what we have come to?

It can be medically necessary, but then it's not being used as birth control, but as a hormone replacement therapy.

[seer]

It can be medically necessary, but then it's not being used as birth control, but as a hormone replacement therapy.

Yes, and I have no problem with that.

[sylas]

And getting other people to pay for their birth care, day care and such...

As noted; this is not other people paying for things; it's about insurance. They are not remotely the same thing; so you have THAT wrong also, as well as the nonsense definition of feminism.

And in particular, it is about whether a public corporation can use religious views as a basis for removing certain procedures or treatments from the insurance they are required to provide for their employees.

Cheers -- sylas