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I Am Woman Hear Me Whine!

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  • #76
    none of your business.jpg
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    • #77
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Yes, I grew up in a lower middle class Italian neighborhood, where most families were recent immigrants. And women had a great deal of respect. There was a saying "the man was the head of the family, but the woman was the neck." I learned never to lay a hand on a woman, to always open their door, to sit only after the lady sat. To give my seat to woman and stand instead. To always pay for the date and when a woman said no, that meant no. Never let a lady carry anything heavy. And that women should be loved and cherished - but heck, we were just Neanderthals - what did we know...
      I'm kind of wondering since when did it become a burden to be a women and when did we all become victims just because of that fact? It seems to stem from this idea that independence is some sort of freedom from all responsibility and any sort of responsibility is a 'burden'. When did it become such a terrible thing to be a wife or mother? Why are children some sort of unwanted burden that just gets in the way of our fun? Really seems quite sad to me.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        [ATTACH=CONFIG]1020[/ATTACH]
        amen.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
          Is that all you have to say about that?
          Pretty much.

          If the new, unique human life begins at conception, then preventing implantation terminates that life.
          But if a woman simply takes the contraceptives or uses the hormonal IUD before intercourse, then those forms of birth control will inhibit (they're supposed to, at least) ovulation, so there won't be an egg that could be fertilized. Hence the name contraception. And the copper IUD is (if I remember correctly) supposed to serve as something like spermicide, so that sperm doesn't actually reach the egg.


          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          Incorrectly? Give me evidence. An IUD specifically works by blocking implantation or disturbing a newly implanted embryo. That is abortion. Morning after pills are touted to stop ovulation (or prevent implantation that is abortion).
          See the above response to Spartacus.

          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]1020[/ATTACH]
          But as I pointed out earlier in the thread, the company is willing to cover Viagra and vasectomies. Does that not strike you as odd or inconsistent?
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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          • #80
            Originally posted by square_peg View Post
            But if a woman simply takes the contraceptives or uses the hormonal IUD before intercourse, then those forms of birth control will inhibit (they're supposed to, at least) ovulation, so there won't be an egg that could be fertilized. Hence the name contraception. And the copper IUD is (if I remember correctly) supposed to serve as something like spermicide, so that sperm doesn't actually reach the egg
            Well, gosh, why didn't someone tell Hobby Lobby? I'm sure they would have been happy to not have to pay all those lawyers and court costs.

            But as I pointed out earlier in the thread, the company is willing to cover Viagra and vasectomies. Does that not strike you as odd or inconsistent?
            Hobby Lobby doesn't have a problem with contraception. It has a problem with abortifacients.
            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
              Hobby Lobby doesn't have a problem with contraception. It has a problem with abortifacients.
              That's what they claimed, yes, but the political cartoon that Jedidiah posted was focusing on the financial aspects of a policy.
              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                That's what they claimed, yes, but the political cartoon that Jedidiah posted was focusing on the financial aspects of a policy.
                In response to the moronic and hysterical protests by the Left. People protesting against the Hobby Lobby decision typically advance particularly stupid and shrill arguments, even by the standards of modern political discourse.
                Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                  That's what they claimed, yes, but the political cartoon that Jedidiah posted was focusing on the financial aspects of a policy.
                  That was simple a response to some of the idiotic posts about contraception. Hobby lobby already paid for 16 of the 20 "contraceptive methods" available. They objected to 4 (as has been mentioned before). You may be right about the copper or hormonal IUDs. The older versions all worked as I described.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    A) You DO realize that the Ninth Amendment IS part of the Constitution, yes?
                    2) And NO WONDER you didn't spell it out, because it's GOOFY to assume it includes the REQUIREMENT to provide abortion or contraception products for women:

                    Source: Ninth Amendment

                    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    C) It does not state nor imply that anybody has the responsibility to PAY for somebody else's "right" to obtain something.
                    The purpose of the Ninth Amendment is to show that there may exist rights that are not enumerated. I am claiming that the right to free contraception (and in the wider picture, free healthcare) exists in this space.

                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    You make it sound as though being a women is some sort of burden. You also seem to view motherhood as some kind of burden too. I don't view being a women nor being a mom as a burden. Why do you believe these things are burdens?
                    Nice straw man.

                    That's a mere assertion and one you haven't managed to prove, but assertions. Considering that you seem to view being a women and mother as a burden, I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you also use a bald assertion as some sort of argument. Personally, I think your position is one of the most sexist positions I've ever heard. Since when did 51% of the US population automatically become victims? I guess this is another 'victory' for the proverbial victim hood community? When did women all become victims because of our sex?
                    Women are victims of biological happenstance. They just so happen carry the burdens that their reproductive systems bring, like periods and pregnancy and all the related medical complications. Being a woman is biologically unfair because of this. Birth control makes things fairer. Free access to birth control would remove any possible monetary restriction which might get in the way of that.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      Women are victims of biological happenstance. They just so happen carry the burdens that their reproductive systems bring, like periods and pregnancy and all the related medical complications. Being a woman is biologically unfair because of this. Birth control makes things fairer. Free access to birth control would remove any possible monetary restriction which might get in the way of that.
                      Oh my. Your comments show a VERY hostile view of womanhood and motherhood.
                      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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                      • #86
                        Forcing others to pay for your health insurance because you can't afford it is simply immoral, as it is a human rights violation. The correct solution would be to try and find ways to make healthcare more affordable. With all the government imposed red-tape and subsidies, that shouldn't be hard to do but forcing your employer to pay for your health insurance is, as aforementioned, an infringement of their human rights. You are not entitled to the property of others. Goodness me, and I thought the British NHS was a hellacious nightmare.
                        My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          I'm kind of wondering since when did it become a burden to be a women and when did we all become victims just because of that fact? It seems to stem from this idea that independence is some sort of freedom from all responsibility and any sort of responsibility is a 'burden'. When did it become such a terrible thing to be a wife or mother? Why are children some sort of unwanted burden that just gets in the way of our fun? Really seems quite sad to me.
                          You can look to the feminist movement, and the ethos of the sixties in general.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                          • #88
                            forcing your employer to pay for your health insurance is, as aforementioned, an infringement of their human rights. You are not entitled to the property of others.

                            This goes beyond the basic argument of whether an employer should be forced to pay for birth control, which it can be argued is not a basic human need. Health care does come under the heading of basic human need.
                            Some years ago an employer argued that he paid people to do a job, he didn't pay them to go on overseas holidays and drive luxury cars.
                            No-one pointed out to him that his employees weren't working so that he could have those things. They work so that they can have a decent standard of living - which not so incidentally, includes access to health care - and some sort of hope for a future without having to struggle.
                            The employer aims to achieve maximum return for minimum outlay - that is just good business sense.
                            When an employee aims to achieve maximum return for minimum outlay - that is just rapacious greed.
                            Try again.
                            The cost of health care - which in America is exorbitant - is in part what people work to cover. Compare the cost in America of (say) a hip replacement with the cost of the same surgery in Europe. The difference is staggering - and pundits largely attribute that cost to the flow on effects from having a health system in the hands of private companies. By all accounts, "Obamacare" is no solution - it's just a bandaid which does nothing to address the basic causes of the problems with that system.

                            Whether contraception should be considered a part of health care - I tend to accept that it might be.
                            But insisting on the right to abortifacients in addition to contraceptives goes beyond anything that might be considered reasonable - particularly when reasonable alternatives are already on offer.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 07-06-2014, 06:33 AM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              This goes beyond the basic argument of whether an employer should be forced to pay for birth control, which it can be argued is not a basic human need. Health care does come under the heading of basic human need.
                              Some years ago an employer argued that he paid people to do a job, he didn't pay them to go on overseas holidays and drive luxury cars.
                              No-one pointed out to him that his employees weren't working so that he could have those things. They work so that they can have a decent standard of living - which not so incidentally, includes access to health care - and some sort of hope for a future without having to struggle.....
                              We are guaranteed the right to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of happiness.... and often that IS a struggle! WHERE does the constitution guaranty ANYTHING "without having to struggle"?
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                We are guaranteed the right to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of happiness.... and often that IS a struggle! WHERE does the constitution guaranty ANYTHING "without having to struggle"?
                                item: there is no "we" - that's "you"

                                item: The key point was - People don't work so that other people get to live in luxury. They work so that they can have a decent standard of living and some hope for a future without struggle=hardship.

                                I wasn't addressing the basic argument that employers should not be forced to pay for "contraceptives" in addition to paying for contraceptives (which would reasonably be considered already generous) - I was addressing the point that "forcing an employer to pay for your health insurance is an infringement of their human rights."
                                I question whether that argument - "paying for health care is a violation of the employers' rights" - can be supported.
                                Can it be argued that an employer is entitled to all the profit from his employees' labour? Or are employees entitled to a reasonable return for their labour? - Who defines what is reasonable? Those with a vested interest, whether employee or employer?
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

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