Originally posted by square_peg
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Voter ID Laws Are Not Racist...
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostI'm not sure what you find unclear. You believe that the voter ID laws weren't intended to be racist. As support for that belief, you cited a study that said there haven't been detrimental effects from those laws. But by itself, a lack of detrimental effects doesn't prove that there was no malicious intent. Here's an even simpler analogy than the one I already presented. Let's say that Sparko tries to sneak up behind you and punch you. (For the sake of this analogy, we'll say a prankster attached a "Punch me, I'm liberal" sign to your back.) However, his aim is even worse than his ability to accurately represent people's arguments, so he completely misses. Someone sees this and tells you "Hey. Sparko tried to punch you." You, of course, didn't feel his punch. The fact that you didn't feel any effects is NOT proof that Sparko didn't have the intent to punch you. Likewise, the supposed fact that there weren't negative effects from voter ID laws isn't proof that there was no negative intent behind them.
I could just as easily say that big foot tried to eat you, and just because you are still here is not proof that big foot didn't intend to eat you.
You can make any claim you want and say that just because there is no evidence for it is not proof that it isn't true.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostThe fact that you didn't feel any effects is NOT proof that Sparko didn't have the intent to punch you. Likewise, the supposed fact that there weren't negative effects from voter ID laws isn't proof that there was no negative intent behind them.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd yet you said:
"That's apparently true as far as the argument itself goes, but it's a far cry from "Therefore, there couldn't have been any racist intent behind the plan."
Do you ever get tired of contradicting yourself, your majesty?
I was mostly challenging seer's questionable logic
Seriously. This stuff is written DIRECTLY in the post that YOU quoted. Zymologist read that same post and correctly understood where I stand on this issue. Why are you and Sparko seemingly utterly incapable of doing so?Last edited by fm93; 07-02-2014, 09:17 PM.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostIt just makes me wonder why I've never seen anyone oppose ID requirements for the purchase of alcohol (for example) on the same basis as opposition to voting ID.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostI think it would apply. But what's the relevance here?
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostHoly unprintable swear words.
I EXPLICITLY SAID IN THAT EXACT SAME POST THAT YOU YOURSELF JUST QUOTED THAT I DON'T THINK IT WAS RACISM.
"That's apparently true as far as the argument itself goes, but it's a far cry from "Therefore, there couldn't have been any racist intent behind the plan."
Do you ever get tired of contradicting yourself, your majesty?
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostKeeping in mind that I'm taking you to be playing the devil's advocate here, and not necessarily advancing this argument yourself....
This argument seems odd to me. How would it not apply to any other requirement for ID, such as to purchase alcohol, or gain entrance into certain government buildings?
The only response I've seen to that is that voting is a right, and purchasing alcohol (for example) is not, but that doesn't address the idea that requirement of the ID would be racist because of the demographic that would be most affected by it.
Originally posted by Joel View PostIt seems that 2 does not follow, unless you add an additional premise that those who currently lack ID are incapable of obtaining an ID.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostDo you have any hard evidence of racism or am I suppose to believe it is racism because you said so?
I EXPLICITLY SAID IN THAT EXACT SAME POST THAT YOU YOURSELF JUST QUOTED THAT I DON'T THINK IT WAS RACISM.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostAh, here comes Sparko to once again attack a position that I don't even hold. I'd think that would get exhausting after a while, but apparently not.
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Originally posted by square_peg View PostThat's apparently true as far as the argument itself goes, but it's a far cry from "Therefore, there couldn't have been any racist intent behind the plan."
I personally don't think they were intended to be, but at the same time, I do think it's possible that some people may support such laws for racially influenced reasons. Either way, I was mostly challenging seer's questionable logic, not making a definitive statement.
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Originally posted by square_peg View Post1. There are actually quite a few people in this country who are eligible to vote but lack ID.
1a. The Brennan Center for Justice reports that the number may be as high as 11%.
2. It logically follows that if ID is required to be able to vote, then those particular folks who lack ID can't vote.
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Originally posted by square_peg View Post*patiently whistles
*drums fingers on desk
*checks watch
Done ranting yet? Okay, now listen up. I PERSONALLY DO NOT BELIEVE THESE LAWS HAD RACIST INTENT. Read and re-read that capitalized sentence as many times as necessary until it sinks in. That said, here's why some people do think that.
1. There are actually quite a few people in this country who are eligible to vote but lack ID.
1a. The Brennan Center for Justice reports that the number may be as high as 11%.
2. It logically follows that if ID is required to be able to vote, then those particular folks who lack ID can't vote.
Now, what's a demographic that has a disproportionately high number of people who lack ID? People of color, who tend to vote Democratic. The concern, then, is that by making ID possession a requirement for voting eligibility, policymakers are preventing some people of color from casting ballots, which, besides serving as a burden that doesn't affect white people quite as much, also skews the true numbers in favor of the Republican party, since people who would've voted Democratic were excluded.
Understand the issue now? As usual, you did little more than mock something that you didn't even understand. You're basically Jorge in that regard.
This argument seems odd to me. How would it not apply to any other requirement for ID, such as to purchase alcohol, or gain entrance into certain government buildings? The only response I've seen to that is that voting is a right, and purchasing alcohol (for example) is not, but that doesn't address the idea that requirement of the ID would be racist because of the demographic that would be most affected by it.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHow could it even be racist? It's not like the poll worker wouldn't notice someone's race unless they had a photo id.
"oh no! Mr. Smith. I didn't notice until I saw your photo ID that you are black. We can't allow you to vote!"
Every state I have lived in as an adult checks IDs at poll stations to verify you are who you are supposed to be, and live where you are registered to vote. And you have to sign a poll book that they compare with your signature on your ID to make sure it matches. It has nothing to do with race. It just prevents voter fraud.
Or is Obama claiming that only minorities engage in voter fraud and so checking their ID to stop them would be discrimination?
*drums fingers on desk
*checks watch
Done ranting yet? Okay, now listen up. I PERSONALLY DO NOT BELIEVE THESE LAWS HAD RACIST INTENT. Read and re-read that capitalized sentence as many times as necessary until it sinks in. That said, here's why some people do think that.
1. There are actually quite a few people in this country who are eligible to vote but lack ID.
1a. The Brennan Center for Justice reports that the number may be as high as 11%.
2. It logically follows that if ID is required to be able to vote, then those particular folks who lack ID can't vote.
Now, what's a demographic that has a disproportionately high number of people who lack ID? People of color, who tend to vote Democratic. The concern, then, is that by making ID possession a requirement for voting eligibility, policymakers are preventing some people of color from casting ballots, which, besides serving as a burden that doesn't affect white people quite as much, also skews the true numbers in favor of the Republican party, since people who would've voted Democratic were excluded. If true, the irony would be that those who claim that the laws would facilitate fair elections by preventing voter fraud are actually the ones causing unfair elections with those laws.
Understand the issue now? As usual, you did little more than mock something that you didn't even understand. You're basically Jorge in that regard.Last edited by fm93; 07-02-2014, 05:21 PM.
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Originally posted by seer View PostFlaw in what reasoning? The "Voter ID Laws Are Not Racist..." was a play on the title in the link. I never thought they were racist or intended to be racist.
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