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Voter ID Laws Are Not Racist...

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  • Voter ID Laws Are Not Racist...

    No kidding!

    If there was a hidden agenda behind North Carolina’s voter ID law to suppress minority turnout – as the law’s opponents claim – it hasn’t worked, based on a study showing not only more voters overall, but an increase in black voter turnout especially, after the law’s implementation.
    Study on North Carolina Voter ID Law Shows Increase in Minority Turnout.


    The findings came before a scheduled hearing next week where the U.S. Justice Department will ask a U.S. District Court for an injunction against the law going into the November midterms. The Obama administration has argued that such a law will make it more difficult for minorities to vote.

    Comparing May 4, 2010 North Carolina primary election data with the May 14, 2014 primary data, the study found that voter turnout increased across the board, but particularly among black voters, where it increased by 29.5 percent, compared to an increase of white voter turnout of 13.7 percent. The findings were based on Census Bureau data and public names who signed the voter rolls.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...of-this-study/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    So...because it didn't work, it wasn't racist?
    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by square_peg View Post
      So...because it didn't work, it wasn't racist?
      I think the argument would be more like, "it didn't actually restrict voting in the way its detractors claimed it would."

      Out of curiosity, do you think that voter ID laws are racist?
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        I think the argument would be more like, "it didn't actually restrict voting in the way its detractors claimed it would."
        That's apparently true as far as the argument itself goes, but it's a far cry from "Therefore, there couldn't have been any racist intent behind the plan."

        Out of curiosity, do you think that voter ID laws are racist?
        I personally don't think they were intended to be, but at the same time, I do think it's possible that some people may support such laws for racially influenced reasons. Either way, I was mostly challenging seer's questionable logic, not making a definitive statement.
        Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

        I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by square_peg View Post
          That's apparently true as far as the argument itself goes, but it's a far cry from "Therefore, there couldn't have been any racist intent behind the plan."


          I personally don't think they were intended to be, but at the same time, I do think it's possible that some people may support such laws for racially influenced reasons. Either way, I was mostly challenging seer's questionable logic, not making a definitive statement.
          What are you taking exception with? It was the liberals claiming that Voter ID laws were racist. Or that there was a racial intent. The fact is there is no evidence of that.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            What are you taking exception with? It was the liberals claiming that Voter ID laws were racist. Or that there was a racial intent. The fact is there is no evidence of that.
            Suppose that an evil doctor tried to kill you by giving you what's ordinarily a deadly disease. If you happen to be immune to the virus and end up unharmed, your survival doesn't magically erase the fact that the doctor had malicious intent. Likewise, that study doesn't prove that there wasn't racist intent behind the laws. It just shows that they apparently didn't work.
            Last edited by fm93; 07-02-2014, 03:33 PM.
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by square_peg View Post
              Suppose that an evil doctor tried to kill you by giving you what's ordinarily a deadly disease. If you happen to be immune to the virus and end up unharmed, your survival doesn't magically erase the fact that the doctor had malicious intent. Likewise, that study doesn't prove that there wasn't racist intent behind the laws. It just shows that they apparently didn't work.
              If you think there was a racist intent then it is up to you to show that. If not, I see no reason to assume that there was. Why should I?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                Suppose that an evil doctor tried to kill you by giving you what's ordinarily a deadly disease. If you happen to be immune to the virus and end up unharmed, your survival doesn't magically erase the fact that the doctor had malicious intent. Likewise, that study doesn't prove that there wasn't racist intent behind the laws. It just shows that they apparently didn't work.
                wow you just look for stuff to argue about, don't you?

                Just because there is no evidence that Elvis was behind 911 doesn't mean that he wasn't!

                Yeah, good strategy there Square_peg. Argue that something could be true because there is no evidence that it is.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ah, here comes Sparko to once again attack a position that I don't even hold. I'd think that would get exhausting after a while, but apparently not.

                  To seer: As I explicitly told Zymologist, I don't believe they were intended to be racist. I was primarily just pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. So no, I don't have to show anything. That said, however, I do wonder if you know why other people think those laws are racist. Do you understand where they're coming from, at least?
                  Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                  I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                    Ah, here comes Sparko to once again attack a position that I don't even hold. I'd think that would get exhausting after a while, but apparently not.
                    Yeah you seem to routinely argue positions you don't even hold.
                    Last edited by Sparko; 07-02-2014, 04:01 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by square_peg View Post

                      To seer: As I explicitly told Zymologist, I don't believe they were intended to be racist. I was primarily just pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. So no, I don't have to show anything. That said, however, I do wonder if you know why other people think those laws are racist. Do you understand where they're coming from, at least?
                      Flaw in what reasoning? The "Voter ID Laws Are Not Racist..." was a play on the title in the link. I never thought they were racist or intended to be racist. So what is your problem?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How could it even be racist? It's not like the poll worker wouldn't notice someone's race unless they had a photo id.

                        "oh no! Mr. Smith. I didn't notice until I saw your photo ID that you are black. We can't allow you to vote!"

                        Every state I have lived in as an adult checks IDs at poll stations to verify you are who you are supposed to be, and live where you are registered to vote. And you have to sign a poll book that they compare with your signature on your ID to make sure it matches. It has nothing to do with race. It just prevents voter fraud.

                        Or is Obama claiming that only minorities engage in voter fraud and so checking their ID to stop them would be discrimination?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          How could it even be racist? It's not like the poll worker wouldn't notice someone's race unless they had a photo id.

                          "oh no! Mr. Smith. I didn't notice until I saw your photo ID that you are black. We can't allow you to vote!"

                          Every state I have lived in as an adult checks IDs at poll stations to verify you are who you are supposed to be, and live where you are registered to vote. And you have to sign a poll book that they compare with your signature on your ID to make sure it matches. It has nothing to do with race. It just prevents voter fraud.

                          Or is Obama claiming that only minorities engage in voter fraud and so checking their ID to stop them would be discrimination?
                          The librul argument is that blacks and latinos have the attention span of a gnat and if you make them go through too many hoops they won't bother to show up.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Flaw in what reasoning? The "Voter ID Laws Are Not Racist..." was a play on the title in the link. I never thought they were racist or intended to be racist.
                            I'm not sure what you find unclear. You believe that the voter ID laws weren't intended to be racist. As support for that belief, you cited a study that said there haven't been detrimental effects from those laws. But by itself, a lack of detrimental effects doesn't prove that there was no malicious intent. Here's an even simpler analogy than the one I already presented. Let's say that Sparko tries to sneak up behind you and punch you. (For the sake of this analogy, we'll say a prankster attached a "Punch me, I'm liberal" sign to your back.) However, his aim is even worse than his ability to accurately represent people's arguments, so he completely misses. Someone sees this and tells you "Hey. Sparko tried to punch you." You, of course, didn't feel his punch. The fact that you didn't feel any effects is NOT proof that Sparko didn't have the intent to punch you. Likewise, the supposed fact that there weren't negative effects from voter ID laws isn't proof that there was no negative intent behind them.
                            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              How could it even be racist? It's not like the poll worker wouldn't notice someone's race unless they had a photo id.

                              "oh no! Mr. Smith. I didn't notice until I saw your photo ID that you are black. We can't allow you to vote!"

                              Every state I have lived in as an adult checks IDs at poll stations to verify you are who you are supposed to be, and live where you are registered to vote. And you have to sign a poll book that they compare with your signature on your ID to make sure it matches. It has nothing to do with race. It just prevents voter fraud.

                              Or is Obama claiming that only minorities engage in voter fraud and so checking their ID to stop them would be discrimination?
                              *patiently whistles
                              *drums fingers on desk
                              *checks watch

                              Done ranting yet? Okay, now listen up. I PERSONALLY DO NOT BELIEVE THESE LAWS HAD RACIST INTENT. Read and re-read that capitalized sentence as many times as necessary until it sinks in. That said, here's why some people do think that.

                              1. There are actually quite a few people in this country who are eligible to vote but lack ID.
                              1a. The Brennan Center for Justice reports that the number may be as high as 11%.
                              2. It logically follows that if ID is required to be able to vote, then those particular folks who lack ID can't vote.

                              Now, what's a demographic that has a disproportionately high number of people who lack ID? People of color, who tend to vote Democratic. The concern, then, is that by making ID possession a requirement for voting eligibility, policymakers are preventing some people of color from casting ballots, which, besides serving as a burden that doesn't affect white people quite as much, also skews the true numbers in favor of the Republican party, since people who would've voted Democratic were excluded. If true, the irony would be that those who claim that the laws would facilitate fair elections by preventing voter fraud are actually the ones causing unfair elections with those laws.

                              Understand the issue now? As usual, you did little more than mock something that you didn't even understand. You're basically Jorge in that regard.
                              Last edited by fm93; 07-02-2014, 06:21 PM.
                              Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                              I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                              Comment

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