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Two More Wins For Freedom...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    No PM, I don't think any employer should be forced by law to pay for health insurance, and if they do can provide or not provide whatever specifics they choose. Since when does the government get to tell a private business what benefits they have to offer?
    Amen

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    • #17
      Here's an interesting blog post about misconceptions about the ruling. I have to say I've seen every one of those.

      http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/...about.html?m=1
      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        Page 9 on the court PDF here: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...3-354_olp1.pdf It basically says that an exception was already in place for religious nonprofits so their employees could go through the government if they really wanted contraceptive coverage, and the Court said there's no reason this couldn't be extended for companies like Hobby Lobby as well.
        I got that - I dunno, it sounded like you thought the scope was so limited that it would have no practical effect. It actually will affect some companies - but it's greater impact is in curtailing the regulatory influence.

        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • #19
          Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
          Here's an interesting blog post about misconceptions about the ruling. I have to say I've seen every one of those.

          http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/...about.html?m=1

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
            Here's an interesting blog post about misconceptions about the ruling. I have to say I've seen every one of those.

            http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/...about.html?m=1
            I personally knew that blogger in high school, actually, though we didn't go to the same school.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #21
              No effect, huh? They were telling Hobby Lobby they had to pay, what, 1.3 million PER DAY for their non compliance! I guess the other companies in question were also facing that fate. Of course those penalties were suspended pending the SCOTUS ruling and are now moot.
              Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                No PM, I don't think any employer should be forced by law to pay for health insurance, and if they do can provide or not provide whatever specifics they choose. Since when does the government get to tell a private business what benefits they have to offer?
                Most governments tell private businesses what benefits they have to offer to an extent.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Unintended consequences:

                  So, now you work for a company owned by Jehovah's Witnesses. They will now be allowed to deny coverage for your needed blood transfusion on religious grounds.

                  Great move, people!

                  NORM
                  When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                    Unintended consequences:

                    So, now you work for a company owned by Jehovah's Witnesses. They will now be allowed to deny coverage for your needed blood transfusion on religious grounds.

                    Great move, people!

                    NORM

                    Even if that were true - and it likely isn't - the hospital/doctor CAN'T deny life saving service in an emergency. You can get your transfusion and set up a payment plan.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It seems to me as though too much of the commentary on this topic has ignored the test set up by the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which states that a generally applicable law which violates religious freedom may be enforced given that:
                      1. the law is pursuing a compelling state interest
                      2. the state is pursuing the means which is least restrictive with respect to religious liberty

                      Essentially, the decision was made on the grounds that there were less restrictive means available to the government if it wanted to make contraceptives widely available. It doesn't have to impose on the religious consciences of a certain category of businesses in order to accomplish that aim.

                      Providing a life-saving procedure could easily be judged to be a more compelling interest than providing contraception, such that a transfusion can be mandated as part of uniform coverage and contraception be provided for only through, for example, government vouchers... or, in some cases, simply the same system (insufficient though it is) which the Obama administration already set up for religious non-profits.

                      The Supremes will almost always make decisions based on the tiniest possible legal distinction and with the narrowest possible consequences (that they'll admit to), and this decision is no exception.
                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Even if that were true - and it likely isn't - the hospital/doctor CAN'T deny life saving service in an emergency. You can get your transfusion and set up a payment plan.
                        Correct. Even in NON life saving situations (blood for elective surgery for example - although I can't imagine ANY surgery not needing blood), arrangements can be made.
                        Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          In his decision, Alito expressly said that the decision would not extend to blood transfusions or vaccinations. However, he did not explain why.

                          As for the notion of getting rid of employers' insurance, if such a change is to be made, I would prefer it be made wholesale to leaving individual people here and there out in the cold in the meantime.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            I got that - I dunno, it sounded like you thought the scope was so limited that it would have no practical effect. It actually will affect some companies - but it's greater impact is in curtailing the regulatory influence.

                            I mean from the employee's standpoint. Obviously it has a tremendous effect from the employer's standpoint.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              In his decision, Alito expressly said that the decision would not extend to blood transfusions or vaccinations. However, he did not explain why.

                              As for the notion of getting rid of employers' insurance, if such a change is to be made, I would prefer it be made wholesale to leaving individual people here and there out in the cold in the meantime.
                              Life-saving procedures like transfusions and public health concerns like vaccinations may be more compelling and immediate interests than contraception such that a less restrictive policy wouldn't be able to adequately protect those interests.
                              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                                Most governments tell private businesses what benefits they have to offer to an extent.
                                Really? Here in the US I don't believe that any company has to offer healthcare by law. It is their choice.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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