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Bestiality: Can an animal "consent"?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mr. Anderson View Post
    Wasn't that the argument back in the day against interracial sexual relations.
    Actually, no it wasn't. The argument was against mixing the white "race" with any other non-white "race". There was never any laws against a Hispanic and a black mating.

    The Racial Integrity Act required that a racial description of every person be recorded at birth and divided society into only two classifications: white and colored (essentially all other, which included numerous American Indians). It defined race by the "one-drop rule", defining as "colored" persons with any African or Native American ancestry. There was an exception made for the ancestors of Pocahontas, as many of the powerful First Families of Virginia" (FFV) counted her as a direct ancestor. As new groups began to immigrate, such as from China, India, and South America, they were all included in the "colored" classification, and could intermarry without penalty, as long as they didn't marry a European white.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      Or even consent to being owned.
      Dogs are owned.

      Cats have staff.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Dogs are owned.

        Cats have staff.
        FWIU, Jake has "owned" you a couple of times.


        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • #34
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          FWIU, Jake has "owned" you a couple of times.

          I said DOGS are owned -- I said NOTHING about Jake!
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            Actually, no it wasn't. The argument was against mixing the white "race" with any other non-white "race". There was never any laws against a Hispanic and a black mating.
            That's not quite right. Its only very recently that "Hispanic" or "Latino" is considered non-white. It used to be thought that since Hispanic people came from European stock, that they were legally white (I grew up with this sort of thinking, so maybe it was a regional thing as well). Ironically, I think it was the advent of affirmative action steps that boxed people into categories of race in an attempt to keep them from being discriminated against.

            One famous case was Perez v. Sharp in California, which was one of the first times that anti-miscegenation laws were seen as unconstitutional. The plaintiffs in the case were Andrea Perez, a Mexican American who identified as white, because "under the California law, individuals of Mexican ancestry generally were classified as white because of their Spanish heritage", and Sylvester Davis, a black man.
            Last edited by OingoBoingo; 06-28-2014, 05:01 PM.

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            • #36
              Lots of hispanics ARE white. It's possible Ms Perez was one of them.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                Why should universal ire be used to trump those that feel that it is their choice/freedom to engage in this activity - even if it is an extremely small minority?

                How can one say, "It's wrong" apart from the Bible?
                For your first question, it shouldn't. If a person is claiming that the Bible is an origin of a certain moral, I want to know what the person thinks the reason is that the moral is found in cultures without a Bible-based cultural history. I am asking your second question.

                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Well PM, homosexual behavior was mostly rejected in most cultures for most of history, even in non-biblical cultures. So what does that tell us?
                I don't know about that. Homosexuality was present in Native American, ancient Greek, ancient Roman, Chinese, and Japanese cultures, among others. I'm willing to assume your statement is true for the sake of argument if you are willing to give me a straight answer to my question.

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                • #38
                  Psst, PM - Scripture states that God has written Hi law on our hearts - it would be more problematic from a Christian POV if other cultures didn't have similar morals. The 'secular reasoning' for moral values is nonsense from the Christian POV - you're asking how square his circle is.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                    Lots of hispanics ARE white. It's possible Ms Perez was one of them.
                    Source: California Law Review, August 2008

                    In California, Mexican Americans had long been regarded as white for purposes of marriage. Andrea was a mestizo who, by all accounts, did not appear phenotypically white and who, given the racial politics of California at the time, likey received none of the social privileges associated with whiteness. Ironically, though, she was deemed to fall among those whose blood had to be protected from contamination by non-Whites. Source

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    The distinction doesn't appear to always have been clear cut early on:

                    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census

                    Census 1940 - President Franklin D. Roosevelt promoted a "good neighbor" policy that sought better relations with Mexico. In 1935 a federal judge ruled that three Mexican immigrants were ineligible for citizenship because they were not white, as required by federal law. Mexico protested, and Roosevelt decided to circumvent the decision and make sure the federal government treated Hispanics as white. The State Department, the Census Bureau, the Labor Department, and other government agencies therefore made sure to uniformly classify people of Mexican descent as white. This policy encouraged the League of United Latin American Citizens in its quest to minimize discrimination by asserting their whiteness.[12]

                    The 1940 census was the first to include separate population and housing questionnaires.[9] The race category of "Mexican" was eliminated in 1940, and the population of Mexican descent was counted with the White population.[10]

                    © Copyright Original Source

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      I don't know about that. Homosexuality was present in Native American, ancient Greek, ancient Roman, Chinese, and Japanese cultures, among others. I'm willing to assume your statement is true for the sake of argument if you are willing to give me a straight answer to my question.
                      I don't know about the others, but in Ancient Rome, homosexuality didn't share the same dimensions we give it today. Roman attitudes about the morality of homosexual sex are, well, complicated, as certain writings and established laws like the Lex Scantinia seem to bear out.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                        I am asking your second question.
                        Is there anything that is "wrong" and what is the justification for it?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
                          That's not quite right. Its only very recently that "Hispanic" or "Latino" is considered non-white. It used to be thought that since Hispanic people came from European stock, that they were legally white (I grew up with this sort of thinking, so maybe it was a regional thing as well). Ironically, I think it was the advent of affirmative action steps that boxed people into categories of race in an attempt to keep them from being discriminated against.

                          One famous case was Perez v. Sharp in California, which was one of the first times that anti-miscegenation laws were seen as unconstitutional. The plaintiffs in the case were Andrea Perez, a Mexican American who identified as white, because "under the California law, individuals of Mexican ancestry generally were classified as white because of their Spanish heritage", and Sylvester Davis, a black man.
                          I'm more familiar with the Virginia laws because I live in Richmond. From the article on Wiki:

                          California Civil Code Section 60, which provided, "All marriages of white persons with Negroes, Mongolians, members of the Malay race, or mulattoes are illegal and void" and on Section 69, which stated that "no license may be issued authorizing the marriage of a white person with a Negro, mulatto, Mongolian or member of the Malay race".

                          Again, this stipulated that there were "whites" and non-whites, like the Virginia laws. The Negros could marry Mongolians or other minorities, so the law was not equally applied to individual races.
                          That's what
                          - She

                          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                          - Stephen R. Donaldson

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            Psst, PM - Scripture states that God has written Hi law on our hearts - it would be more problematic from a Christian POV if other cultures didn't have similar morals. The 'secular reasoning' for moral values is nonsense from the Christian POV - you're asking how square his circle is.
                            That just opens up a new can of worms due to the discrepancies between Biblical tenets and common worldwide morals.

                            Originally posted by OingoBoingo View Post
                            I don't know about the others, but in Ancient Rome, homosexuality didn't share the same dimensions we give it today. Roman attitudes about the morality of homosexual sex are, well, complicated, as certain writings and established laws like the Lex Scantinia seem to bear out.
                            I agree. It was still different from the idea that it's bad period.

                            Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                            Is there anything that is "wrong" and what is the justification for it?
                            Outside of the Bible there are many other religions and philosophies that attempt to answer that question. If I wanted to I could claim subscription to any one of them as my answer.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                              Outside of the Bible there are many other religions and philosophies that attempt to answer that question. If I wanted to I could claim subscription to any one of them as my answer.
                              Any others that forbid bestiality?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                                It seems the bigger elephant would be those that reject the consent argument as valid. Still, I think it obvious that survival trumps consent.
                                I'm not sure what you mean here. Could you restate this?
                                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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