The police-industrial complex?

[NormATive]

Why are you making it a Christian thing?

This is an overwhelmingly Christian group, no? All of the commenters suggesting fear of police in this conversation are Christians, so I am quite rightly assuming that somehow, their Christian worldview is informing this fear.

As a former Christian, I am puzzled as to what changed to suggest we should fear police having the tools to protect themselves.

NORM

[NormATive]

No... unless law enforcement is doing something obviously wrong (i.e. upholding the system of apartheid in South Africa for one example).

What does apartheid have to do with police acquiring protective armor for their vehicles?

NORM

[Epoetker]

No... unless law enforcement is doing something obviously wrong (i.e. upholding the system of apartheid in South Africa for one example).

Upholding apartheid was obviously right in hindsight, Mr. Not-Currently-Living-in-South-Africa. Now that the pockets of remaining white people in South Africa have the much better option of relying on either themselves, mercenaries, or the corrupt and ineffectual black police force to enforce order, you're saying that this is better than living under a system that kept the public peace?

Saying triggering things like that is what particularly encourages me, and you would be well advised to pick your words more carefully before callously slandering a system that prevented much of the chaos the country now lives under.

[myth]

Upholding apartheid was obviously right in hindsight, Mr. Not-Currently-Living-in-South-Africa. Now that the pockets of remaining white people in South Africa have the much better option of relying on either themselves, mercenaries, or the corrupt and ineffectual black police force to enforce order, you're saying that this is better than living under a system that kept the public peace?

Saying triggering things like that is what particularly encourages me, and you would be well advised to pick your words more carefully before callously slandering a system that prevented much of the chaos the country now lives under.

Wow. Just...wow.

[rogue06]

The problem with bureaucracy buying an expensive toy is that they are either psychologically or administratively compelled to use said toy (proving it to be worth the expense). A legitimate precaution can then become a dangerous liability.

The old if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail philosophy.

[Epoetker]

Wow. Just...wow.

Response was trite, just trite. They say the motto of the Millenial generation is "Here's why that's a problem."

Nevertheless, if you're seriously attempting to argue that South Africa is a better, safer, or more prosperous country under black rule, now's the time to do it. If not, I'm going to presume it's because you've generally been miseducated on the nature of things down there.

[KingsGambit]

This thread has nothing to do with South Africa. Start another thread if you want to discuss it.

[Darth Executor]

No... unless law enforcement is doing something obviously wrong (i.e. upholding the system of apartheid in Roman occupied Judea for one example).

Fixed.

Oh wait...

[Epoetker]

This thread has nothing to do with South Africa. Start another thread if you want to discuss it.

You're the one who brought up South African police enforcing apartheid, now's the time to put up or shut up about your experience there. Illuminate the difference between, say, enforcement experiences with black and white cops.

My opinion, based on my experience and readings, is that most police officers are required to be brutal, exacting, and vicious with dangerous idiotic, and equally brutal minorities on a daily basis, but they can't simply come out and say that there's going to be a double standard without massive retaliation from their "superiors" at the police commissioner and mayoral level, so they have to roll into suburban houses and go full Call of Duty on the residents because EQUALITY, bigot. And as long as you can't say that you do indeed have double standards for different classes and races of people based on hard statistical likelihood of violent responses, you're going to empower every sadist in the police department to greater levels of violence, every amoral ghetto lawyer among the asphalt tribes to greater demands for leniency, and every sociopathic local politician to dodge any and all accountability for greater and greater ugliness and stupidity on the force.

Being honest about race would actually benefit common crime victims and create a much more efficient and effective police department, but 'random crime victims' and 'decent people trying to work morally and efficiently' aren't an organized political constituency, and therefore don't exit in the media's radar.

Other good reading from an actual cop can be found in the "Problems facing the Department" sidebar on this site.

Other good reading on South African cops: my first three Google autocompletes:

"South African cops having banging in the office(omg)"
"South African cops caught on camera"
"South African cops caught on tape"

Should I start bringing the pain links or are you ready to admit defeat now?

[KingsGambit]

It was an offhand example used to answer a question that wasn't that much on topic to begin with. I know you like to look for any possible inroads possible to derail threads with your racist agenda, and a mere mention does not suffice to change the entire topic of the thread.

[myth]

Response was trite, just trite. They say the motto of the Millenial generation is "Here's why that's a problem."

Nevertheless, if you're seriously attempting to argue that South Africa is a better, safer, or more prosperous country under black rule, now's the time to do it. If not, I'm going to presume it's because you've generally been miseducated on the nature of things down there.

I wasn't attempting to argue anything. I just wanted to express disdain for more of your crazy ranting.

And no, I don't care to discuss it with you. I wouldn't convince you, and you wouldn't convince me. So let's not waste our time.

[Cow Poke]

This is an overwhelmingly Christian group, no? All of the commenters suggesting fear of police in this conversation are Christians, so I am quite rightly assuming that somehow, their Christian worldview is informing this fear.

It's not "fear of police" -- heck, I'm a Police Chaplain now, pretty actively involved with our PD, and a former Police Officer. My concern is that mistakes happen... and with the "overwhelming force" available to local law enforcement today, the MAGNITUDE of those mistakes can be incredible.

I'm not "afraid" -- I'm concerned.

[Cow Poke]

The militarization of police departments seems to have made them much more aggressive and eager to use their new toys if given the slightest chance. I even have a couple friends in law enforcement that have expressed their concern about this trend.

Yeah.

[Cow Poke]

Except they pull their Rambo junk on little old ladies instead of bad guys.

And small children. Unfortunately, even drug dealers often have small children in homes where a raid takes place, AND, it's not terribly unusual for a raid to take place on the WRONG HOUSE, with devastating affect.