Seattle Pacific Shooter Had Warning Signs....

[DesertBerean]

...so another case of shoulda, woulda, coulda.

http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/2014/0607...tainable-video

[Jedidiah]

What had he done to warrent being detained? The system is faulty, but no matter what we do to improve it there will still be flaws. We humans are imperfect and will always find a way to express that.

[DesertBerean]

If you couldn't tell, my example was making fun of Epo, not supporting his "analysis".

Thereby pulling this further off the actual topic.

[DesertBerean]

All, please address the OP or start another thread.

[RumTumTugger]

In my role as department head I'm telling you guys to take the discussion about Epoekter's misogyny to another thread stop derailing this one. Anymore off topic post will be split off along with previous ones if it continues.

[Catholicity]

Realistically one of the larger flaws here is found in our mental health system. People can't actually get help unless they have gone through treatment and are suicidal/homicidal anyway aren't eating drinking or sleeping or have an "in" diagnosis and then they might be given wrongful treatment. Money has been cut so much for mental health and funded into other things that the poor are lacking. Autism can't be treated if its first diagnosed passed the age of 21, and public funding won't treat severe OCD or Residual/Undifferentiated Diagnoses but it will treat Borderline Personality, Schizophrenia, or Bipolar. If you don't have it...you can't get treatment at all you can't get much of anything...except a great big pity party. Of course women can get free public funding to kill their babies...but I digress

[DesertBerean]

Yes...funding is an issue. I find it interesting that this young man's mother did not have him admitted. It seems from the article that he was of age, so I wonder if the real issue is money, since she would have to gain custody of him to begin with. If so, she probably couldn't afford the legal and medical costs involved in such a process.

Of course he's at least partially responsible for the mess he got himself into. I've never bought into the idea that somebody made them do such terrible things, not when they spend so much effort thinking out the details. But as Grandpa Jed pointed out, the system is run by flawed human beings and lack of money doesn't help.

[DesertBerean]

http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...rofilexml.html

Here's a more personal perspective on Ybarra. Severe family problems but he was nice to friends and neighbors. Hm.

[Raphael]

DB, I've commented before if we remove the weapons used from the discussion (as they are a peripheral tool that is used, be it a knife, or a gun) we are left with individuals who are disturbed enough to be wanting to go on a killing spree.

The problem is how preemptive to we go if we do see the warning signs? Do we go full Minority Report detaining people with warning signs? After all you can have the warnign signs, but retain enough self control to not act on them.
It's a tricky situation and I'm not sure where the answer lies.

[DesertBerean]

Oh neither do I, Raphael. I don't want a Minority Report concept either. . I've been thinking over these situations. Where can a family like Rodgers ' s who DID warn the police possibly get more power to interfere if the police can't? Should they? Should the police toss everybody into the psych hold 'just in case' instead of being trained to follow certain criteria (sarcasm: they'd LOVE that idea! )

Removing weapons aren't the answer either. Neither is blaming somebody or something as the triggering mechansim. Funding? Should the mental health system be given money for evaluation and treatment? Or the schools (more sarcasm: schools would LOVE that- after all, they're the first line of education!)

[DesertBerean]

You know....text for the sermon tonight was 1 Cor 15:1-11. Famous chapter...We should all know it. It's the Resurrection chapter.

But verse 2 sticks with me right now:
By this gospel you are saved,*if you hold firmly*to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. (NIV, Gateway Bible).

The gospel is: Christ died for our sins. Christ was buried then rose again from the dead. Christ appeared to many, including five hundred people at one time, as proof of his victory over death itself. And every Christian, in order to not have believed in vain, needs to live out this truth in every day life, not any hobby horse grievance any man or woman might have.

not saying there's an easy answer either. But I've decided after hearing the sermon tonight that it's time to check priorities.

[Raphael]

Oh neither do I, Raphael. I don't want a Minority Report concept either. . I've been thinking over these situations. Where can a family like Rodgers ' s who DID warn the police possibly get more power to interfere if the police can't? Should they? Should the police toss everybody into the psych hold 'just in case' instead of being trained to follow certain criteria (sarcasm: they'd LOVE that idea! )

Removing weapons aren't the answer either. Neither is blaming somebody or something as the triggering mechansim. Funding? Should the mental health system be given money for evaluation and treatment? Or the schools (more sarcasm: schools would LOVE that- after all, they're the first line of education!)

Funding may be the answer, the organisations best equipped to deal with things are often woefully underfunded and are also often charity organisations (thinking of the good work the Salvation Army does here in NZ ... support them people!), and definitely more education for key people who deal with things like this. The problem with the last one is identifying the key people.

Maybe it should become a part of teacher training, afterall they are the ones who will deal with kids on a daily basis. And it has to be educated enough so you don't get morons suspending kids for supposedly eating his sandwich into the shape of a gun.

[DesertBerean]

Things are crazy enough here in California. *sigh* Teachers aren't what they used to be.

[Carrikature]

Yes...funding is an issue. I find it interesting that this young man's mother did not have him admitted. It seems from the article that he was of age, so I wonder if the real issue is money, since she would have to gain custody of him to begin with. If so, she probably couldn't afford the legal and medical costs involved in such a process.

Of course he's at least partially responsible for the mess he got himself into. I've never bought into the idea that somebody made them do such terrible things, not when they spend so much effort thinking out the details. But as Grandpa Jed pointed out, the system is run by flawed human beings and lack of money doesn't help.

It's not just money. By and large, our society doesn't consider mental health to be a real thing, and those who admit to it tend to be marginalized. That makes it so people don't know what they're looking at, deny it when they do, and refuse to seek help when they can't deny it any longer.

[DesertBerean]

It's not just money. By and large, our society doesn't consider mental health to be a real thing, and those who admit to it tend to be marginalized. That makes it so people don't know what they're looking at, deny it when they do, and refuse to seek help when they can't deny it any longer.

I don't know if our society thinks mental health is unreal. I do agree we see it as inconvenient as you point out.

I remember my experiences with my ex husband. The situation wasn't helped by my denial of what was really going on. Too, I think my own sense of self preservation was very poor, so I was slow to admit just how bad things were. Pride got in the way of what might have been an awesome show of God's power to heal those who admit they need help.