Originally posted by LiconaFan97
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Federal officials stockpiled munitions, sought ‘heat ray’ device before clearing Lafa
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Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View PostThe protests in questions were on June 1, not May 31.
Rather you are positing the only thing in their minds was that one singe day of June 1st and could not recall the previous night nor extrapolate logically what could happen that next night or in coming days?
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostI could say the same of your comment, as if the afternoon June 1 protest was the only one the Major was referencing needing these items for
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostSo they only wanted this thing that one single day for that one single section of the protest? They weren't, say, going "oh, after that riot with a fire set in a historic church last night, maybe we should try to get more equipment to deal with further unrest as these continue"?
Rather you are positing the only thing in their minds was that one singe day of June 1st and could not recall the previous night nor extrapolate logically what could happen that next night or in coming days?
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Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View PostWhen I saw the prior protests I immediately wondered what means were on hand in case the protestors charged en masse. Didn't you?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHow do you think the police should handle a riot when asking them to disperse doesn't work? And they are throwing things at the police? I am not talking about this case in particular or peaceful protestors, I am asking in general. If there was a riot and the crowd was getting violent and attacking the police, how should the police respond? What tools can they use?
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Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View PostI'm not trying to dodge your question but I don't know what best practices are. If use of these devices would be in line with those then I wouldn't like it but I guess I wouldn't be able to object as strongly. Obviously in the case of a legitimate riot harsh measures are necessary to maintain order.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd yet you were just telling is how sickening it all is. And they didn't even do any of it.
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Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View PostIt's sickening because the protest on that day was not a riot and because I'm not convinced that those devices are justified for use on Americans except possibly under very extreme circumstances. If all of this was above board we likely wouldn't have a named, first party, high ranking military whistleblower who is likewise troubled.
I consider a brick flying at the head of a cop an extreme circumstance.
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Originally posted by Maranatha View PostI could agree the big guns should only be used against a riot. Then again, my threshold of a riot might be low. For instance one firework bigger than a firecracker, one rock or brick thrown....riot. Unload on them. You saw the poor guy who caught fire from their fireworks. I'm glad it was him and not a cop.
I consider a brick flying at the head of a cop an extreme circumstance.
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Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View PostFederal officials stockpiled munitions, sought ‘heat ray’ device before clearing Lafa
Just sickening. What have we become?
That graph only goes to 2018. If those fairly linear trends have continued in the last couple of years (and given stories like the one mentioned in this thread, along with numerous stories of US police brutality in the international news lately, they probably have), you might be now looking at a situation where only about 10-15% of people in allied Western nations view the US as country that respects the freedoms of its people.
I know increasingly the US right-wing has some negative views about its western allies (I got told that US allies ought to suffer in another thread, which raises questions as to whether US conservatives understand what an 'ally' is, or whether they actually view themselves as enemies of other free western nations). But if the US wants to see itself as the "leader of the free world", or view its President as being in that position, does that make any sense when the rest of the "free world" that you are supposedly leading has the view that you aren't part of the "free world" yourselves?
The idea of police using heat rays or even tear gas on protesters, is orders of magnitude beyond what people would tolerate from police in my country. If there was an unruly protest here a couple of police would be expected to turn up and chat politely to the leaders about getting the protest a bit more under control, and perhaps encourage a meeting with a politician to share their grievances, and it would be a national scandal if those police were carrying a gun on them at the time they did this, and would make for some controversial front page headlines if they did this while carrying a taser on them. The last time there were large scale riots here, 39 years ago, police use of batons on protesters (resulting in 0 deaths and 0 serious injuries) was subsequently deemed by public sentiment to be too much use of police force, and a repeat of that wouldn't be tolerated. The idea of police using violence of any kind on protesters would go down like a lead balloon here would be the national scandal of the year, possibly the decade, and cause an immediate government inquiry at the highest levels as to how it had been allowed to happen. So when people here look at what's happening in America...
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostNo longer a free nation according to people Pew surveyed in allied western countries:
That graph only goes to 2018. If those fairly linear trends have continued in the last couple of years (and given stories like the one mentioned in this thread, along with numerous stories of US police brutality in the international news lately, they probably have), you might be now looking at a situation where only about 10-15% of people in allied Western nations view the US as country that respects the freedoms of its people.
I know increasingly the US right-wing has some negative views about its western allies (I got told that US allies ought to suffer in another thread, which raises questions as to whether US conservatives understand what an 'ally' is, or whether they actually view themselves as enemies of other free western nations). But if the US wants to see itself as the "leader of the free world", or view its President as being in that position, does that make any sense when the rest of the "free world" that you are supposedly leading has the view that you aren't part of the "free world" yourselves?
The idea of police using heat rays or even tear gas on protesters, is orders of magnitude beyond what people would tolerate from police in my country. If there was an unruly protest here a couple of police would be expected to turn up and chat politely to the leaders about getting the protest a bit more under control, and perhaps encourage a meeting with a politician to share their grievances, and it would be a national scandal if those police were carrying a gun on them at the time they did this, and would make for some controversial front page headlines if they did this while carrying a taser on them. The last time there were large scale riots here, 39 years ago, police use of batons on protesters (resulting in 0 deaths and 0 serious injuries) was subsequently deemed by public sentiment to be too much use of police force, and a repeat of that wouldn't be tolerated. The idea of police using violence of any kind on protesters would go down like a lead balloon here would be the national scandal of the year, possibly the decade, and cause an immediate government inquiry at the highest levels as to how it had been allowed to happen. So when people here look at what's happening in America...
That's rich, that they think they have any ground to stand on to try to judge the US.
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostThen I fail to understand why you're throwing a fit.
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Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View PostQuite the authoritarian streak you've got. People shouldn't throw things at cops, even things less dangerous than a brick. But jumping from that to riot is... something.
Look, violent people in this society need taken out of society. I really get upset with violent people who hurt others. They can go peacefully or go violently. Seems they like hurting people so they will probably go violently. I ain't scared of that either.
Then, the rest of us can allow the cops to be bored to tears with all the peaceful behavior.
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