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BLM fans and 9-11

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  • BLM fans and 9-11

    So, there is currently a top trending item on Twitter called #AllBuildingsMatter that several thousand BLM fans have posted today.

    A few brief examples:


    The people are fuming about #AllBuildingsMatter 19 years after 9/11?..... Now imagine how we feel with our brothers and sisters blood fresh and bodies cold on the streets and yall screaming #Alllivesmatter ???? So, yeah.


    This one goes to all the beautiful buildings today, no matter your size, color, whether u got built in the hood or the upper class, WE stand with you. All buildings deserve a chance!#AllBuildingsMatter


    how yall mad at #AllBuildingsMatter but still fix ur face to say #AllLivesMatter like its not the same damn thing?


    And EVERY one of these morons has a #BLM in their profiles...
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    So, there is currently a top trending item on Twitter called #AllBuildingsMatter that several thousand BLM fans have posted today.

    A few brief examples:


    The people are fuming about #AllBuildingsMatter 19 years after 9/11?..... Now imagine how we feel with our brothers and sisters blood fresh and bodies cold on the streets and yall screaming #Alllivesmatter ???? So, yeah.


    This one goes to all the beautiful buildings today, no matter your size, color, whether u got built in the hood or the upper class, WE stand with you. All buildings deserve a chance!#AllBuildingsMatter


    how yall mad at #AllBuildingsMatter but still fix ur face to say #AllLivesMatter like its not the same damn thing?


    And EVERY one of these morons has a #BLM in their profiles...
    You realize that they are being deliberately offensive to draw a parallel to #alllivesmatter. They know it's offensive. They are trying to drive a point home.

    I'm more upset about the 50+% of democrats who were 9/11 Truthers during the Bush administration and now complain that it's the GOP that is full of conspiracy theories.
    Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 09-11-2020, 11:28 AM.

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    • #3
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since youve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
        You realize that they are being deliberately offensive to draw a parallel to #alllivesmatter. They know it's offensive. They are trying to drive a point home.
        But the point is ridiculous and completely unrelated.

        I'm more upset about the 50+% of democrats who were 9/11 Truthers during the Bush administration and now complain that it's the GOP that is full of conspiracy theories.
        That's just hypocrisy. This is mocking an actual national tragedy.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          But the point is ridiculous and completely unrelated.



          That's just hypocrisy. This is mocking an actual national tragedy.
          It's not unrelated, the analogy is just very weak as it assumes that people are upset about the buildings. As if we'd be as traumatized by it if the buildings were empty.

          I will agree it is rather tasteless, but with a better analogy it would actually make the point they are trying to make fairly well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
            It's not unrelated, the analogy is just very weak as it assumes that people are upset about the buildings. As if we'd be as traumatized by it if the buildings were empty.

            I will agree it is rather tasteless, but with a better analogy it would actually make the point they are trying to make fairly well.
            Not really. They'd have to basically say that cops are terrorists and shoot not only their intended target, but everyone else within range.
            That's what
            - She

            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
            Stephen R. Donaldson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
              You realize that they are being deliberately offensive to draw a parallel to #alllivesmatter. They know it's offensive. They are trying to drive a point home.

              I'm more upset about the 50+% of democrats who were 9/11 Truthers during the Bush administration and now complain that it's the GOP that is full of conspiracy theories.
              Except it's an incredibly poor analogy. First, bo one particularly is upset over the architectural loss of the buildings on 9/11.

              Second, for it to be an accurate analogy there would need to actually be a significant amount of, say, black deaths to cops. In reality, despite a few stories getting over-covered by a media that wants to foment racial tensions, statistically there are incredibly few shootings of unarmed black men. Indeed a white person is more likely (when population percentages and number of interactions with police are accounted for) to get shot by police while unarmed than an unarmed black person.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                Except it's an incredibly poor analogy. First, bo one particularly is upset over the architectural loss of the buildings on 9/11.

                Second, for it to be an accurate analogy there would need to actually be a significant amount of, say, black deaths to cops. In reality, despite a few stories getting over-covered by a media that wants to foment racial tensions, statistically there are incredibly few shootings of unarmed black men. Indeed a white person is more likely (when population percentages and number of interactions with police are accounted for) to get shot by police while unarmed than an unarmed black person.
                I agree the analogy is rather weak (Look at my next post down from what you quoted)

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are other analogies available that make the same point without putting people on edge (like firefighters spraying water on all houses in a neighborhood because "all houses matter"). This one is going to cause people to shut down without even considering the point being made.

                  I don't even hear people say "all lives matter" anymore, so this battle didn't even need to be picked. I imagine a few more people will be saying it now, though.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    There are other analogies available that make the same point without putting people on edge (like firefighters spraying water on all houses in a neighborhood because "all houses matter"). This one is going to cause people to shut down without even considering the point being made.

                    I don't even hear people say "all lives matter" anymore, so this battle didn't even need to be picked. I imagine a few more people will be saying it now, though.
                    All lives matter is just a natural reaction to something that has become so divisive as BLM. The only other rational way to counter BLM is to point out where the reasons for BLM are just not factual, but then that takes time and calm discussion because you have to look at facts and statistics, and you're just going to be accused of being a racist if you do that. It's an extremely clever slogan (perfect for political cover) because there's no easy way to attack it, I'll give them that.
                    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      All lives matter is just a natural reaction to something that has become so divisive as BLM. The only other rational way to counter BLM is to point out where the reasons for BLM are just not factual, but then that takes time and calm discussion because you have to look at facts and statistics, and you're just going to be accused of being a racist if you do that. It's an extremely clever slogan (perfect for political cover) because there's no easy way to attack it, I'll give them that.
                      It's a generally unhelpful response; basically a snotty dismissal. Randy Alcorn, who is as socially conservative as it gets, wrote an extended article arguing in favor of using neither slogan. I can try to find it later when not out.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                        I'm more upset about the 50+% of democrats who were 9/11 Truthers during the Bush administration and now complain that it's the GOP that is full of conspiracy theories.
                        I'm curious about this. What would you say those 50+% of democrats were claiming that hasn't subsequently been proven?



                        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                        The people are fuming about #AllBuildingsMatter 19 years after 9/11?..... Now imagine how we feel with our brothers and sisters blood fresh and bodies cold on the streets and yall screaming #Alllivesmatter ???? So, yeah.
                        Reminds me of Donald Trump's comments on the afternoon of 9/11, bragging that he now owned the tallest building in NY. Guess he thought HisBuildingsMattered.

                        Donald Trump, radio interview, 9/11/01

                        40 Wall Street [owned by Trump] actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually, before the World Trade Center, was the tallest and then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second tallest. And now its the tallest.
                        Last edited by Starlight; 09-11-2020, 07:06 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I'm curious about this. What would you say those 50+% of democrats were claiming that hasn't subsequently been proven?



                          Reminds me of Donald Trump's comments on the afternoon of 9/11, bragging that he now owned the tallest building in NY. Guess he thought HisBuildingsMattered.

                          Donald Trump, radio interview, 9/11/01

                          40 Wall Street [owned by Trump] actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually, before the World Trade Center, was the tallest and then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second tallest. And now its the tallest.

                          https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-s...sh-knew-035224
                          "How likely is it that people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?" the poll asked.

                          A full 22.6% of Democrats said it was "very likely." Another 28.2% called it "somewhat likely."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            It's a generally unhelpful response; basically a snotty dismissal. Randy Alcorn, who is as socially conservative as it gets, wrote an extended article arguing in favor of using neither slogan. I can try to find it later when not out.
                            Well, a much better way of dealing with it than how I would personally attack it. I just flat out call BLM a lie. In fact, it's very conception was based on a lie. It's lies built on top of lies. I don't believe a lie that is creating violence and carnage in America's streets should be treated with kid gloves, no matter who it offends.
                            Last edited by seanD; 09-11-2020, 07:44 PM.
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
                              https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-s...sh-knew-035224
                              "How likely is it that people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?" the poll asked.

                              A full 22.6% of Democrats said it was "very likely." Another 28.2% called it "somewhat likely."
                              We know that the Bush administration was briefed multiple times in the year before the attacks that the attacks were coming.

                              We know that the think-tank Project for the New American Century had been calling for regime change in Iraq and than 10 Bush administration officials came from there, including Cheney and Rumsfeld. i.e. People who wanted a war in the middle east were very heavily present in the administration, and at the highest levels.

                              We know that despite the warnings, the administration didn't take sufficient action to stop the attacks. There seems to be three general possibilities for the cause of this (a) they felt there was little they could actually do to prevent them, (b) they didn't believe the CIA's briefings and thought Al Qaeda was just posturing, (c) they were content to let the attacks occur. Possibly more than one of these, or all three of them were in play. I would say the evidence currently in the public domain is insufficient to draw a strong conclusion to any of these three possibilities.

                              Given that, I would tend to say "somewhat likely" is the factually correct answer to the poll question, given the benefit of hindsight and the various evidence we have today, and the fact that we really don't know what combination of those three possible motivations were in the minds of the administration officials at the time. Factually speaking, they knew about the attacks in advance and they wanted a war in the middle east. The unknown is whether and how the two are connected, and what was in their minds at the time.

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