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WHISLEBLOWER: Trump manipulating intelligance

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    There is no evidence that Trump has done anything wrong.

    The US justice system operates on a principle of innocent until proven guilty.

    If you're having trouble connecting the dots then you may want to ask a parent or older sibling to help you.
    You are missing the point. Lack of evidence does not necessarily and automatically equal innocence.

    Or are you going to tell us all that Capone was not involved in any organised crime? The FBI could not find any evidence to bring to court that linked him directly to racketeering, murder, corruption etc. Do we therefore assume that, apart from not paying his taxes, Capone was an innocent man?
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      Lack of evidence does not necessarily and automatically equal innocence.
      Legally it does.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Legally it does.
        Therefore, according to you Capone was legally innocent of everything except tax evasion.
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          Therefore, according to you Capone was legally innocent of everything except tax evasion.
          Not according to me, according to the law.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Not according to me, according to the law.
            MM always defends mob bosses.

            Al Capone: NOT GUILTY
            Donald Trump: NOT GUILTY


            Pretty much the same all the way around, except since Al Capone was not president, he COULD be indicted.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              MM always defends mob bosses.

              Al Capone: NOT GUILTY
              Donald Trump: NOT GUILTY

              Pretty much the same all the way around, except since Al Capone was not president, he COULD be indicted.
              And Al Capone was found guilty for the crimes for which there was actual evidence. In the case of Donald Trump, the Democrats took their best shot with the impeachment circus, and Trump was found to be not guilty.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                I have seen nothing to convince me that he lies any more frequently or egregiously than the average politician
                That statement alone shows how far you have fallen under the Trump spell.
                America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  No - Stone was not pardoned, but his sentence was commuted. WRT Flynn, Barr et all are working out the equivalent.

                  Trumps misuse and abuse of the justice system, including his pardon power, exceeds that of anyone before him, but I will not argue that there are not precedents where others also abused the power.

                  As for Obama's pardons, you'd have to make the case that the pardons were not justified - which is the case I'm making about Trump. Presidential pardons exist for a reason. There are people that can be justifiably pardoned. But wrt Obama's pardons, for example, Trumps pardon of Jon Ponder, a convicted Bank Robber puts him on par with Obama. But his commutation of Stone's sentence based on Stone's clear promise NOT to reveal what he knows about Trump's illegal activities places Trump in a class all his own in terms of the abuse of those sorts of powers.
                  Justified or unjustified pardons by presidents is a subject for a different thread, I think.

                  Here, I am pointing out that Trump is not attacking the Constitution, and his pardon of Arpaio's "contempt of court" charge wouldn't qualify.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Is that why Republicans were never able to pin anything on Obama and Hillary?
                    Pin what on Obama or Clinton?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      And Al Capone was found guilty for the crimes for which there was actual evidence. In the case of Donald Trump, the Democrats took their best shot with the impeachment circus, and Trump was found to be not guilty.
                      No at all. The Mueller investigation was not allowed to indict. And in general nothing federal will indict the president at this time. Other state investigations have been hampered by a litany of appeals and other efforts. In fact, there is no reason the President is not serving time right now along side Michael Cohen. If Cohen went to jail, the president who directed his actions certainly should have.

                      The issue here is that with Barr and the republican Senators, Trump literally has a get out of jail free card. He's guilty of so many things any normal person his age wouldn't live to see another day as free man.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        No at all. The Mueller investigation was not allowed to indict. And in general nothing federal will indict the president at this time. Other state investigations have been hampered by a litany of appeals and other efforts. In fact, there is no reason the President is not serving time right now along side Michael Cohen. If Cohen went to jail, the president who directed his actions certainly should have.

                        The issue here is that with Barr and the republican Senators, Trump literally has a get out of jail free card. He's guilty of so many things any normal person his age wouldn't live to see another day as free man.
                        Mueller himself grudgingly admitted, and I quote, "This report does not conclude that the President committed a crime," so whether or not a sitting president can be indicted is a purely academic question. If you tried to take Russian Collusion Delusion case to court, the first thing the defense would do is enter that quote into evidence.

                        Cohen took a deal because he lied to investigators. That's why he's in jail. It has nothing to do with Trump. Even a former head of the FEC said that Trump had broken no laws.

                        Trump has a "get out of jail free" card because no matter how much liberals like you wish otherwise, we still operate on a system of a "innocent until proven guilty", and to date, there is no evidence that Trump is guilty of any crimes. If you really love the truth, then why are you so loathe to accept it?
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Mueller himself grudgingly admitted, and I quote, "This report does not conclude that the President committed a crime," so whether or not a sitting president can be indicted is a purely academic question. If you tried to take Russian Collusion Delusion case to court, the first thing the defense would do is enter that quote into evidence.

                          Cohen took a deal because he lied to investigators. That's why he's in jail. It has nothing to do with Trump. Even a former head of the FEC said that Trump had broken no laws.

                          Trump has a "get out of jail free" card because no matter how much liberals like you wish otherwise, we still operate on a system of a "innocent until proven guilty", and to date, there is no evidence that Trump is guilty of any crimes. If you really love the truth, then why are you so loathe to accept it?
                          You can spin it any way you want MM. Trump is a man that knows how to manipulate the system and people. And it has worked for him so far. But he's a dirty as they come. And he has ambitions that will be very bad for this country if people like you don't wise up.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Mueller himself grudgingly admitted, and I quote, "This report does not conclude that the President committed a crime," so whether or not a sitting president can be indicted is a purely academic question. If you tried to take Russian Collusion Delusion case to court, the first thing the defense would do is enter that quote into evidence.

                            Cohen took a deal because he lied to investigators. That's why he's in jail. It has nothing to do with Trump. Even a former head of the FEC said that Trump had broken no laws.

                            Trump has a "get out of jail free" card because no matter how much liberals like you wish otherwise, we still operate on a system of a "innocent until proven guilty", and to date, there is no evidence that Trump is guilty of any crimes. If you really love the truth, then why are you so loathe to accept it?
                            That's just more fake news. Cohen went to prison on multiple charges, not for lying. Tax fraud, Financial fraud, and campaign finance fraud, the latter of which was directed by individual #1, aka Trump. The only reason Trump wasn't charged and sentenced along with Cohen is because he is the president. And yes, campaign finance fraud is illegal.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                              And yes, campaign finance fraud is illegal.
                              It is, but Trump didn't commit campaign finance fraud. The precedent here is John Edwards who was running for president and was given money by his friends specifically to pay off a mistress. He was found not guilty on the basis that his friends gifted him money prior to the campaign for his own personal use, and so this was simply a continuation of a previously established pattern and was not influenced by his presidential run, which is an exception explicitly written into campaign finance laws. In Trump's case, he has a history of paying off people to keep them quiet, so using his own money to pay off Snowy Downs or whatever her name is simply continued an established pattern and was not influenced by his presidential run.

                              In short, while Trump paying off Stormy Winters or whatever her name is might raise eyebrows, it's not illegal.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                It is, but Trump didn't commit campaign finance fraud. The precedent here is John Edwards who was running for president and was given money by his friends specifically to pay off a mistress. He was found not guilty on the basis that his friends gifted him money prior to the campaign for his own personal use, and so this was simply a continuation of a previously established pattern and was not influenced by his presidential run, which is an exception explicitly written into campaign finance laws. In Trump's case, he has a history of paying off people to keep them quiet, so using his own money to pay off Snowy Downs or whatever her name is simply continued an established pattern and was not influenced by his presidential run.

                                In short, while Trump paying off Stormy Winters or whatever her name is might raise eyebrows, it's not illegal.
                                As I said, short of a bloody massacre in the west wing there is nothing that will move you out of this presidents shadow.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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