Originally posted by shunyadragon
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American Christianity’s White-Supremacy Problem
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostNobody was defending or promoting racism, so there was no apologetics involved.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View PostUmmm.....Duh?
The us is a majority christian country. It is currently 65% of the population, and was much higher not that long ago. It's no surprise that a country who was very religious when these groups formed would have that religion as part of it's beliefs. Is it any wonder that bad groups from muslim countries have an underpinning of Muslim in them?
Take any group, harmful, peaceful, tolerant, intolerant, in the US and there is a good chance that not too long ago, it held christianity as a part of it's beliefs.
Did you actually read the OP [and the article from which the quotes were taken]?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostApologies were a weak attempt at apologetics, and not a meaningful response to address the subject of the thread.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostShe didn't do that MM.
"Certainly Jones’ new book is food for thought for any Christian who is sincerely concerned about the way the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth have been corrupted by white supremacy."
In other words, if you don't accept Jones' book or dispute his conclusions then you are not "sincerely concerned about the way the moral teachings of Jesus of Nazareth have been corrupted by white supremacy." It's a textbook kafkatrap.
Speaking personally, I am neither a racist nor a white supremacist, nobody in my immediate or extended family is a racist or a white supremacist, I've never personally known anybody who was a racist or white supremacist, and I have never attended or been a member of a church that promoted racism or white supremacy.
So...Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostI didn't miss any point. You brought up slavery of your own volition.
I posted the thread of my own volition because I thought this is a very topical and interesting subject - and Jones' book is worth reading. However, I did not bring "up slavery" of my "own volition" I introduced a thread that quoted from an article that examines the history of white American Christianity and white supremacy and that topic includes the history of slavery in the USA as well as the use of Christianity to defend and reinforce inequality and white domination.
Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostNot a single person alive today had anything to do with slavery in the US.
Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostThere ARE still people alive today that served in the Nazi regime.
Originally posted by Gondwanaland View PostIf the former need to 'apologize' for slavery
It points out that various Christians in the early 1800s supported slavery and that slavery was the reason that led to the southern Baptists splitting and creating their own denomination the Southern Baptist Convention [SBC].
However, the full articles also points out that various northern Christians [like Finney] while opposing slavery, did not support either equality for blacks or miscegenation. And this reluctance to give black Americans equality with white Americans was to be found across the USA.
Another section from the article reads:
“After the South’s defeat in the Civil War, Southern church leaders struggled to help their congregants make sense of their loss. The result was the religion of the Lost Cause, a mythology that ennobled the Confederacy and idealized the antebellum South as a bastion of Christian piety and morals. This fusion of religious and cultural values, delivered from the pulpit, helped to legitimize a social order that continued to subjugate Black people. Later, as evangelical Christianity, anchored in the South, grew to become the dominant expression of Christianity in America, its cultural scaffolding, rooted in white supremacy, spread as well. During the era of Jim Crow, when Southern statutes enforced the strict separation of races and restricted the rights of Black people, Northern Protestant churches remained largely segregated and muted in their criticism. Many white Christians saw segregation as simply part of God’s plan for humanity.”
Thus in the late 1950s Ross Barnett [who would go on to become the Governor of Mississippi from 1960-1964] could quite openly declare that “The Negro is different because God made him different to punish him” and that “God was the original segregationist. He made the white man white and the black man black, and he did not intend for them to mix”.
Imagine a political candidate uttering those sentiments in public today!
Recent surveys have found that prejudices towards African Americans, other ethnic minorities [especially Muslims], and generally negative views of black Americans are still prevalent among white Christians. Hence Jones' rather disturbing observation that "the more racist attitudes a person holds, the more likely he or she is to identify as a white Christian. ,"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo she is German? That explains a lot - projecting her own racist past on us."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYup... the opening post is nothing more than an elaborate kafkatrap, essentially asserting that white Christians are inherently guilty for no other reason than the fact that they're white and Christian, and any attempt to deny it will simply be taken as proof of guilt.
Across America Christianity was used justify the inequality [and often oppression] of black Americans. Separate colleges had to be established for black students because white institutions would not admit them. Black students in 1957 who were legally trying to take their place at their local college in Little Rock were met with aggression and threats of violence.
Today surveys among white Christians find prejudices still existing towards black Americans and other racial minorities. These remain facts despite the strenuous efforts of various white Christian leaders and churches in the past forty years or so to distance themselves from the racist past of white American Christianity."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYeah, she actually did. She made sweeping accusations against white Christians and implied that therefore, anybody who is white and Christian is guilty by default. She just dressed it up with a lot of quotes and self-serving commentary, but the end result is the same:
"She" did not make any "sweeping accusations against white Christians and implied that therefore, anybody who is white and Christian is guilty by default". Nor did "she" dress it up with "a lot of quotes and self-serving commentary.
I quoted sections from an article and I gave a he link to the article so that anyone with a modicum of interest could read the full account for themselves.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSpeaking personally, I am neither a racist nor a white supremacist, nobody in my immediate or extended family is a racist or a white supremacist, I've never personally known anybody who was a racist or white supremacist, and I have never attended or been a member of a church that promoted racism or white supremacy."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post"She" did not make any "sweeping accusations against white Christians and implied that therefore, anybody who is white and Christian is guilty by default".
And now you do it again, insisting that the book "is discussing underlying attitudes of superiority and white supremacy that were and still are held by many white American Christians". It's a sweeping accusation that no individual can defend himself against, because if we deny it, then, as the theory goes, that just proves we're just part of the problem.Last edited by Mountain Man; 09-07-2020, 01:32 PM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Reepicheep View PostThe good news is that, just over three years ago, the Southern Baptist Convention voted to denounce white supremacy and the alt-right movement. Baby steps, baby steps...
https://www.wglt.org/post/southern-b...-past#stream/0
Southern Baptist Pastor Confronts His Own, Church's Racial Past
June 22, 2017
The Southern Baptist Convention, one of the largest denominations in the country, voted recently to denounce white supremacy and the alt-right movement, but not without controversy.
Initially, church leaders tried to table the resolution, which was proposed by a prominent African American pastor. The vote proceeded, however, following a backlash from members who condemned the alt-right movement as a "growing menace" to society and recalled the Southern Baptists' painful history of promoting and sustaining slavery.
"Any 'church' that cannot denounce white supremacy without hesitancy and equivocation is a dead, Jesus-denying assembly," tweeted one African American Southern Baptist minister...
You mean, us WHITE SUPREMACIST Southern Baptists allowed an AFRICAN AMERICAN MINISTER to be among our ranks? And he CHOSE TO BE Southern Baptist?????The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThese remain facts despite the strenuous efforts of various white Christian leaders and churches in the past forty years or so to distance themselves from the racist past of white American Christianity.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostOh gee! An anti-American, anti-Christian post from HA, based on "research" from the New Yorker which she accepts without question.
Who'd have thunk it?
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI like the logic here: If we are not guilty of promoting racism and white supremacy, it is no credit to us because then we are accused of merely attempting to "distance ourselves from a racist past". "Guilty until proven innocent" seems to be the name of the game for social justice warriors. Just remember, you can never, ever be proven innocent.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostAre you in denial about white America's history of oppression towards black Americans?Last edited by seer; 09-07-2020, 02:10 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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