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American Christianity’s White-Supremacy Problem

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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I ask you again, who else was there on that ballot to vote for and what would you have done to resist the regime? To the second question you answered "Who knows, perhaps I would have supported Hitler." Which is tacitly and superficially what millions of Germans did.
    Well a number of Germans actually voted no, but I still do not see anything that shows that the majority did not support the Nazi party.

    What caused that nasty little remark? Or is that the level at which you operate?
    And your remark wasn't? That I most likely would have supported the Nazi party?

    I would never have "supported" the Nazis. I may have kept my head down and my mouth shut to avoid attracting attention but I would not have supported the Party.
    You don't know that! If you were raised back then you may not be thinking as you do today.

    Plenty did escape in the early months and years but you used the phrase "perhaps I would have left the country" which suggests you would have gone through official channels to do so. It should also be remembered that as the regime tightened its grip any attempt to escape carried enormous risks and would have cost the individual money.
    So?

    All this is nothing but diversionary tactics on your part in an attempt to shift the emphasis. Nazi Germany and the issues of neo-Nazis in modern Germany ignores the fact that unlike white Christianity in the USA, Nazism has not been a guiding principle that has underpinned German society for over two hundred years.
    You mean Germany did not have a history antisemitism before the Nazi party? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ews_in_Germany
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      I would never have "supported" the Nazis.
      I don't think you can actually make that claim with certainty. You really can't know what you would have done, subject to the times, the social circumstances, the way things developed.

      I've seen far too many people declare "I would NEVER.....", only to do something totally different when the situation actually arose.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        I think Bob Jones allowed Blacks but not interracial dating...
        You're right. I remember now that a high school classmate, in fact the lady who led me to the Lord, went there and told me that same thing.
        When I Survey....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          Well a number of Germans actually voted no, but I still do not see anything that shows that the majority did not support the Nazi party.
          Who else could they vote for? If they did not turn out to vote their names would be noted. If they voted no their names would be noted. What would you have done?

          Do you have any idea what it was like living under that regime? I do not personally but my older family members did.

          Originally posted by seer View Post
          And your remark wasn't? That I most likely would have supported the Nazi party?
          Excuse me, you wrote "Who knows, perhaps I would have supported Hitler " I simply acknowledged what you wrote.

          Originally posted by seer View Post
          You don't know that! If you were raised back then you may not be thinking as you do today.
          Had I been an adult I know I would not have supported them.

          As a child brainwashed by the regime, I cannot say.

          Originally posted by seer View Post
          So?
          Merely pointing out that leaving the country was not an easy option.

          Originally posted by seer View Post
          You mean Germany did not have a history antisemitism before the Nazi party? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ews_in_Germany
          All of Europe had had a history of anti-Judaism/anti-Semitism for centuries. It was not a phenomenon unique to Germany.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            When was Liberty University whites only? Reference please.
            You can read this https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...origins-107133

            And you can read Katherine Stewart's The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism. In chapter three Stewart notes:

            In the first decades of his career, Falwell practiced segregation even in religion. In the early 1960s, when Black high school students attempted to pray at the Thomas Road Church, they were ejected by the police. When Falwell went on to set up a Christian academy, he made sure it stayed just as white as his church. He attracted national attention with a 1965 sermon impugning “the sincerity and nonviolent intentions of some civil rights leaders suchas Dr. Martin Luther King” and—with immense irony, in retrospect—arguing that ministers had no business getting involved in politics. [...]

            In response to the desegregation orders that flowed from the Supreme Court’s Brown v. Board of Education decision of 1954, a number of white families in southern states wished to avoid sending their children to integrated schools. Public officials began promoting “schools of choice,” a euphemism for private schools that were, in effect, white-only. Such “choice” schools were also known as “segregation academies.” In many cases they were, like Falwell’s, affiliated with churches and other religious entities.


            Originally posted by seer View Post
            And many abolitionist supported full rights for Blacks.
            Some evidence would help to support of that statement. However, we know that many others did not.

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            You like to cherry pick to support your twisted views.
            Why are my views "twisted"? Or is your indignation and pique [including the repeated allegations that I am attacking your country, merely [to use a line] "the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass?

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Nonsense, you don't see us starting threads attacking your country.
            The book and the article I cited in the OP are both written by Americans, not Germans. I merely brought both to your attention.

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            And Christianity is not monolithic, never has been.
            That is evidenced by the numerous denominations found in your religion, and the wars that have been fought between various Christian factions.

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Second, I can see no Biblical justification for racism, just the opposite, we are all of "one blood."
            Yet unfortunately biblical texts were used by white Christians to support segregation and, of course, slavery.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
              Yes, but you see she specifically called out "Western" anti-semitism. Obviously, old greek anti-semitism isn't "Western" and therefore doesn't count.

              Also, she pointed out that the term "Blood Libel" is defined as the sacrifices of christians for passover. The fact that this is an evolution of older myth of nearly the exact same type is irrelevant, "Blood Libel" only started after christ and therefore MUST be of christian origin.
              Do you know anything about the Hellenisation of the ancient near east? I am just asking.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Okay, maybe you didn't directly, but the article you cited and commented on certainly did,
                So you have now done a complete volte face from writing this:

                "Yeah, she actually did. She made sweeping accusations against white Christians and implied that therefore, anybody who is white and Christian is guilty by default. She just dressed it up with a lot of quotes and self-serving commentary

                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                and then you implied that anybody who disputes the claims is not sincerely concerned about the words of Jesus Christ being corrupted.
                Cite where I wrote any such thing.

                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                And now you do it again, insisting that the book "is discussing underlying attitudes of superiority and white supremacy that were and still are held by many white American Christians".
                Those attitudes still prevail in surveys taken among white Christian Americans. [WCA]

                Of course not all WCAs hold those views and no one has ever suggested that they do. However, that they occur in various guises among large sections of those WCAs surveyed today indicate that for many WCAs underlying prejudices and negative attitudes towards black Americans in general still prevail.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  Who else could they vote for? If they did not turn out to vote their names would be noted. If they voted no their names would be noted. What would you have done?
                  But 400,000 did vote no! But again you are avoiding the question, there is no evidence that the majority of Germans did not support the Nazi Party.

                  Excuse me, you wrote "Who knows, perhaps I would have supported Hitler " I simply acknowledged what you wrote.
                  Nonsense, my answer was rational - I don't know, that does not mean I likely would support the Nazis.

                  Had I been an adult I know I would not have supported them.
                  How do you know that? A lot of adults were in the Nazi party and I'm sure others supported them. Unless you grew up in that era you have no idea.

                  All of Europe had had a history of anti-Judaism/anti-Semitism for centuries. It was not a phenomenon unique to Germany.
                  But your country has a history of Antisemitism and was the only country that tried to exterminate all the Jews in Europe. You attack American for slavery yet slavery was a nearly universal institution.
                  Last edited by seer; 09-11-2020, 07:17 AM.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    Oh gee! An anti-American, anti-Christian post from HA, based on "research" from the New Yorker which she accepts without question.

                    Who'd have thunk it?
                    Try reading any of the books mentioned in the article. Or even the article itself. Or would that challenge your prejudices against the New Yorker and those who write for it and read it?
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      You can read this https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...origins-107133

                      And you can read Katherine Stewart's The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism. In chapter three Stewart notes:
                      You said Liberty University which wasn't an accredited university until the 1980s. And was not segregated, nor did they reject blacks - unless you have to show evidence otherwise.

                      Some evidence would help to support of that statement. However, we know that many others did not
                      .

                      Harriet Beecher Stowe from my home town fought for the vote for both Blacks and women, that is one that comes to mind. Thaddeus Stevens was another.

                      Why are my views "twisted"? Or is your indignation and pique [including the repeated allegations that I am attacking your country, merely [to use a line] "the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass?
                      See you are doing it again, assuming my motives. And why would I be seeing my own face - I had nothing to do with slavery, Jim Crow or segregation. And if I'm responsible for those you are responsible for the Holocaust.

                      The book and the article I cited in the OP are both written by Americans, not Germans. I merely brought both to your attention.

                      That is evidenced by the numerous denominations found in your religion, and the wars that have been fought between various Christian factions.

                      Yet unfortunately biblical texts were used by white Christians to support segregation and, of course, slavery.
                      And? The point is your attacks on my country when you country has a long history of racism and murder... Why not focus on your own evils...
                      Last edited by seer; 09-11-2020, 07:02 AM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        You said Liberty University which wasn't an accredited university until the 1980s. And was not segregated, nor did they reject blacks - unless you have to show evidence otherwise.

                        .

                        Harriet Beecher Stowe from my home town fought for the vote for both Blacks and women, that is one that comes to mind. Thaddeus Stevens was another.



                        See you are doing it again, assuming my motives. And why would I be seeing my own face - I had nothing to do with slavery, Jim Crow or segregation. And if I'm responsible for those you are responsible for the Holocaust.



                        And? The point is your attacks on my country when you country has a long history of racism and murder... Why not focus on your own evils...
                        Why not respond honestly to the issues raised rather than play some tribal rights game to try to avoid the implications of her questions?

                        Your arguments boil down to the same argument used by the men in Sodom and gommorah against Lot.


                        Source: genesis 19:9

                        But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.”

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 09-11-2020, 07:21 AM.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Why not respond honestly to the issues raised rather than play some tribal rights game to try to avoid the implications of her questions?
                          Jim I love my country and I don't need foreign agitators bad mouthing it, especially when they have NO room to talk. Get it?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Jim I love my country and I don't need foreign agitators bad mouthing it, especially when they have NO room to talk. Get it?
                            What I get is that you are using the same argument used by the men of sodom and gommorah to try to silence an honest voice with legitimate points and questions.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              What I get is that you are using the same argument used by the men of sodom and gommorah to try to silence an honest voice with legitimate points and questions.
                              Think what you want, I made my motives clear. Just because you agree with her America bashing...
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Jim I love my country and I don't need foreign agitators bad mouthing it, especially when they have NO room to talk. Get it?
                                The article and the book are both written by Americans and the article is published in an American magazine.

                                Do you not realise that?

                                I have merely provided a thread about the issue.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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