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American Christianity’s White-Supremacy Problem

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  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Well a number of Germans actually voted no, but I still do not see anything that shows that the majority did not support the Nazi party.
    Who else could they vote for? If they did not turn out to vote their names would be noted. If they voted no their names would be noted. What would you have done?

    Do you have any idea what it was like living under that regime? I do not personally but my older family members did.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    And your remark wasn't? That I most likely would have supported the Nazi party?
    Excuse me, you wrote "Who knows, perhaps I would have supported Hitler " I simply acknowledged what you wrote.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    You don't know that! If you were raised back then you may not be thinking as you do today.
    Had I been an adult I know I would not have supported them.

    As a child brainwashed by the regime, I cannot say.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    So?
    Merely pointing out that leaving the country was not an easy option.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    You mean Germany did not have a history antisemitism before the Nazi party? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ews_in_Germany
    All of Europe had had a history of anti-Judaism/anti-Semitism for centuries. It was not a phenomenon unique to Germany.

    Leave a comment:


  • Faber
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I think Bob Jones allowed Blacks but not interracial dating...
    You're right. I remember now that a high school classmate, in fact the lady who led me to the Lord, went there and told me that same thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I would never have "supported" the Nazis.
    I don't think you can actually make that claim with certainty. You really can't know what you would have done, subject to the times, the social circumstances, the way things developed.

    I've seen far too many people declare "I would NEVER.....", only to do something totally different when the situation actually arose.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    I ask you again, who else was there on that ballot to vote for and what would you have done to resist the regime? To the second question you answered "Who knows, perhaps I would have supported Hitler." Which is tacitly and superficially what millions of Germans did.
    Well a number of Germans actually voted no, but I still do not see anything that shows that the majority did not support the Nazi party.

    What caused that nasty little remark? Or is that the level at which you operate?
    And your remark wasn't? That I most likely would have supported the Nazi party?

    I would never have "supported" the Nazis. I may have kept my head down and my mouth shut to avoid attracting attention but I would not have supported the Party.
    You don't know that! If you were raised back then you may not be thinking as you do today.

    Plenty did escape in the early months and years but you used the phrase "perhaps I would have left the country" which suggests you would have gone through official channels to do so. It should also be remembered that as the regime tightened its grip any attempt to escape carried enormous risks and would have cost the individual money.
    So?

    All this is nothing but diversionary tactics on your part in an attempt to shift the emphasis. Nazi Germany and the issues of neo-Nazis in modern Germany ignores the fact that unlike white Christianity in the USA, Nazism has not been a guiding principle that has underpinned German society for over two hundred years.
    You mean Germany did not have a history antisemitism before the Nazi party? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ews_in_Germany

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    That still does not tell me that the majority didn't support the Nazis and what they were doing.
    I ask you again, who else was there on that ballot to vote for and what would you have done to resist the regime? To the second question you answered "Who knows, perhaps I would have supported Hitler." Which is tacitly and superficially what millions of Germans did.


    Originally posted by seer View Post

    And I that suspect you would have been a guard in a woman's work camp.
    What caused that nasty little remark? Or is that the level at which you operate?

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    You have no idea, if you grew up in that era...
    I would never have "supported" the Nazis. I may have kept my head down and my mouth shut to avoid attracting attention but I would not have supported the Party.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Funny, I knew people who did escape Nazi Germany, one was a Jewish Doctor and his family, through Switzerland.
    Plenty did escape in the early months and years but you used the phrase "perhaps I would have left the country" which suggests you would have gone through official channels to do so. It should also be remembered that as the regime tightened its grip any attempt to escape carried enormous risks and would have cost the individual money.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    And many of those prejudices towards Jews are still present in your country. As a matter of fact Antisemitism is on the rise in your country: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-antise...mes/a-53583839

    Why not tell us all about your tainted and wicked past and present?
    All this is nothing but diversionary tactics on your part in an attempt to shift the emphasis. Nazi Germany and the issues of neo-Nazis in modern Germany ignores the fact that unlike white Christianity in the USA, Nazism has not been a guiding principle that has underpinned German society for over two hundred years.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    that there are worse than Bob Jones.
    So? Are you without sin?

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    What is your point?
    that there are worse than Bob Jones.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    eventually ... But there are worse that Bob Jones.
    What is your point?

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I think Bob Jones allowed Blacks but not interracial dating...
    eventually ... But there are worse that Bob Jones.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Faber View Post
    I remember back in 1976 when it was Lynchburg Baptist College, I and a group from my church had visited the church for a bicentennial patriotic rally. It had a name, I can't remember. But Falwell Sr. was introducing a young black couple with high ambitions in serving the Lord. It was shortly after that that we learned that this couple, while (foolishly, I admit) strolling over a railroad trestle, were unable to get out of the way of an oncoming train and were killed.

    Maybe she's thinking about Bob Jones University. "If you are against segregation and against racial separation, then you are against God Almighty." -Bob Jones Sr., Easter Sunday radio broadcast, April 17, 1960.
    I think Bob Jones allowed Blacks but not interracial dating...

    Leave a comment:


  • Gondwanaland
    replied
    Originally posted by Faber View Post
    I remember back in 1976 when it was Lynchburg Baptist College, I and a group from my church had visited the church for a bicentennial patriotic rally. It had a name, I can't remember. But Falwell Sr. was introducing a young black couple with high ambitions in serving the Lord. It was shortly after that that we learned that this couple, while (foolishly, I admit) strolling over a railroad trestle, were unable to get out of the way of an oncoming train and were killed.

    Maybe she's thinking about Bob Jones University. "If you are against segregation and against racial separation, then you are against God Almighty." -Bob Jones Sr., Easter Sunday radio broadcast, April 17, 1960.
    It appears she may be thinking of Falwell's Liberty Christian Academy (which is a separate thing and is not Liberty University though much later on it moved onto the Liberty University campus), which was segregated at its founding but integrated 2 years later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Faber
    replied
    I remember back in 1976 when it was Lynchburg Baptist College, I and a group from my church had visited the church for a bicentennial patriotic rally. It had a name, I can't remember. But Falwell Sr. was introducing a young black couple with high ambitions in serving the Lord. It was shortly after that that we learned that this couple, while (foolishly, I admit) strolling over a railroad trestle, were unable to get out of the way of an oncoming train and were killed.

    Maybe she's thinking about Bob Jones University. "If you are against segregation and against racial separation, then you are against God Almighty." -Bob Jones Sr., Easter Sunday radio broadcast, April 17, 1960.
    Last edited by Faber; 09-10-2020, 10:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    No one is disputing that.

    However, many others did not use Christianity to further abolition, particularly the Southern Baptist Convention, which openly sided with the Confederates. Furthermore, various nineteenth century abolitionists, like Finney, opposed giving black Americans equality with whites and he would not permit black congregants to have official positions in his church.

    Likewise many Christian churches and church leaders openly opposed the anti-segregation and civil rights movements of the 1950s and 1960s. Jerry Falwell's "whites only" Liberty University immediately springs to mind.
    When was Liberty University whites only? Reference please. And many abolitionist supported full rights for Blacks. You like to cherry pick to support your twisted views.

    That is a complete digression and an attempt to employ the tu quoque fallacy. Firstly, we are not discussing neo-Nazis in Germany [even though they do exist]. Secondly, Nazism has not been a guiding principle that has underpinned German society for over two hundred years, unlike white Christianity in the USA.
    Nonsense, you don't see us starting threads attacking your country. It is your glaring hypocrisy. And Christianity is not monolithic, never has been. Second, I can see no Biblical justification for racism, just the opposite, we are all of "one blood."

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    What other party could they vote for in 1938? Furthermore, these elections were neither fair nor democratic. Polling stations were patrolled by SS and Nazi Party officials. Voters who voted “No” to reunification could be traced by the regime. There were genuine fears of being beaten up or arrested and disappearing into camps.

    Only three years earlier in the Saar referendum in 1935 [again over reunification with Germany] the local Nazi Party exerted massive intimidation and violence behind the scenes to deter the opposition from voting “No”. Social Democratic meetings were broken up by brownshirts wielding steel bars. People distributing propaganda against reunification were beaten up and even shot. Anti-fascist bars were attacked and had their windows shattered by gunfire. Through all this the local police stood by. German SS units were sent into the area to help escalate the terror, and rumours put out by the 'Yes' campaign encouraged voters to believe that the ballot would not be secret [in other words the Nazis would know how you voted].

    Given what had been happening over the past two years in Germany regarding plebiscites and elections that was an entirely believable suggestion and enough to terrify many of those who were considering voting “No” into refraining.
    That still does not tell me that the majority didn't support the Nazis and what they were doing.


    I suspect you probably would have.
    And I that suspect you would have been a guard in a woman's work camp.

    I would never have “supported” the Nazis.
    You have no idea, if you grew up in that era...

    How? You would need papers and travel permissions. You would have had to apply for those. What reason[s] would you give to those Nazi officials for wanting to leave the Reich?
    Funny, I knew people who did escape Nazi Germany, one was a Jewish Doctor and his family, through Switzerland.

    I am not attacking your country. I have merely posted a thread about a book written by an American Christian and academic which details the white supremacist history of white Christian Americans and which shows that many of those prejudices towards black American are still present among today’s white American Christians.
    And many of those prejudices towards Jews are still present in your country. As a matter of fact Antisemitism is on the rise in your country: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-antise...mes/a-53583839

    Why not tell us all about your tainted and wicked past and present?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    And many Christians use Christianity to further the abolition moment and the civil rights movement.
    No one is disputing that.

    However, many others did not use Christianity to further abolition, particularly the Southern Baptist Convention, which openly sided with the Confederates. Furthermore, various nineteenth century abolitionists, like Finney, opposed giving black Americans equality with whites and he would not permit black congregants to have official positions in his church.

    Likewise many Christian churches and church leaders openly opposed the anti-segregation and civil rights movements of the 1950s and 1960s. Jerry Falwell's "whites only" Liberty University immediately springs to mind.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    And there are many Neo-Nazis in your country today that are racist. So?
    That is a complete digression and an attempt to employ the tu quoque fallacy. Firstly, we are not discussing neo-Nazis in Germany [even though they do exist]. Secondly, Nazism has not been a guiding principle that has underpinned German society for over two hundred years, unlike white Christianity in the USA.

    Leave a comment:

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